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Duh - it's called winning in November
by RCH1
+1 Reply


It's truly amazing how many on the far left are up in arms over Barack Obama's shifting political positions towards the center. It is as if they have totally forgotten what happened to the likes of George McGovern, Michael Dukakis and other champions of the left in their failed attempts to capture the Presidency.

With the Bush Administrations high negative rating with most Americans, the poor economy, high gas prices and the war in Iraq, it is very likely that the Democrats will increase their control in the House and Senate. A win by Barack Obama would ensure atleast 4 years for the Democrats to set the national agenda. So capturing the Presidency has become their top priority.

Obama’s new congressional liaison, Phil Schiliro, attended a Democratic leadership meeting Tuesday afternoon as well as a meeting of House Democratic chairmen to convince House and Senate Democrats to take a more centrist path this election-year summer, following Obama's lead.

The most prominent example is the overhaul of the nation’s intelligence surveillance laws (FISA) that Senate Democrats passed Wednesday with Obama’s support. Many liberals personally opposed the bill, but understand that taking a strong stand on national security will appeal to the undecided and moderate voters needed to win the Presidential election in November.

The Obama campaign is confident that his base is secure and has developed a strategy which will appeal to moderate Democrats, independents and centrist Republicans and undercut the support for John McCain.

<LINK>

Ron


Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by shirley
I'm just surprised so few were able to figure it out. Russ Feingold said last night that many of these issues will be revisted after Obama is elected. Duh, is right.
Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by RCH1


too many here seem to be "invested" in their own angry personal perspective to get the "big picture". There is plenty of time over the 4 years following the November election to "right the course".

Ron

Centerization is as old as politics
by larbabe

Appealing to the base during the primaries, then appealing to the moderates during the presidential race.

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by shirley
I agree, If they stopped their foolish temper tantrums long enoudh to look at logic, they'd realize that the majority of the country is centrist. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure that out. Keep in mind, that's what will sell in some of those red atates Obama is going after.
Here are several interesting quotes on flip-flopping
by larbabe

DARMAN: The Noble History of Flip Flopping

It is worth remembering, before the depression sets in too deep, that flip-flopping has a noble history in this country. In his first run for the presidency, Abraham Lincoln vowed not to force the end of slavery in the South. But by his second Inaugural, he could swear that, God willing, "every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid with another drawn by the sword." Where was the greatness when Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964? In the fact that a white politician, who'd come of age in Jim Crow Texas and had been a sometime segregationist in the Senate, knew he was sacrificing his party's domination of the South—and did the right thing all the same. What made Bobby Kennedy's antiwar campaign of 1968 so remarkable? In part, the fact that he had been the fiercest of cold warriors, a lieutenant to Joseph McCarthy himself. Schoolchildren know what grace means in America: I once was lost but now am found,'twas blind but now I see.

<link>

For Robert Feldman, a professor of psychology at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, flip-flopping on the campaign trail is a very human trait.

"Politicians are like the rest of us," he said. "In everyday life, we say things to make ourselves look better, get people to like us, get a job. We all lie, to a greater or lesser extent. It's the same with politicians."

<link>

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by Arkady
You went after Clinton for every small dishonesty, gimmick, and attempt to position herself for November. But now that it's Obama playing that game it's OK? Hypocrisy, they name is shirley.
Re: Centerization is as old as politics
by Arkady

Yes. Obama is a standard issue politician. But now you should spot the reason so many on the left are disappointed. He spent the last year presenting himself as a new kind of politician. Seeing his run-of-the-mill move to the left and subsequent run-of-the-mill move to the right has shattered that mythology for many of those who made the mistake of believing in it. Now they've realized that they didn't get the authentic figure they thought could reinvent politics. They got someone who is perhaps even more calculating than Clinton.

If they'd backed Clinton they'd have had someone who: (1) had a lot more experience, (2) had a more progressive and honestly workable health care reform plan, (3) just maybe would have opposed this FISA vote, and (4) certainly would have been better positioned to compete with McCain among the swing voters and swing demographics. They made a huge error, and although most of them probably haven't been honest with themselves about that yet, their disillusionment with Obama has been sudden and painful. Now the remaining members of the Obama cult are angry that these apostates dare point out Obama's hypocrisy.

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by Arkady

I cut Obama plenty of slack on his symbolic gestures to appeal to the centrists. If he wants to go on bashing 1960s hippies to appeal to the rednecks that hated them, that doesn't bother me. If he wants to keep giving lip service to those who want to roll back late-term abortions, that's fine too. If he wants to rattle the imaginary saber he doesn't yet even have at his side, to make himself look tough on Iran and in the thrall of Israel, it's no big deal. Talk is cheap and I'm fine with a little hypocritical chatter from him to capture the center. I can even handle gimmick votes on minor issues. But the FISA issue wasn't minor. It struck to the very heart of the Republic, and Obama betrayed us all with that vote.

In a way, I'm less disillusioned than former true believers. I never thought Obama was what he was cynically pretending to be. I knew he was an ambitious and calculating politician who'd gladly lie and reinvent himself to win. So the confirmation of that suspicion isn't painful for me. At some level, it's a relief, because it would be scary indeed if Obama had been a true believer in his own cult of personality. I'm sort of glad it was all an act from him, and that deep down he's a pragmatist who knows step one has got to be winning an election. But that blanket forgiveness for cynical political calculation is not so broad that it covers all sins. Some things are just too important to use as throw-away chips in the political game. FISA is on that list. Obama's failure to see that is an enormous knock against him.

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by shirley

Ever hear of people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones? Look in the mirror and you'll find gross hypocrisy! You never did answer the question why so many of her top donors abandoned her and went to Obama over her negative campaigning.

Lying about landing in sniper fire in Bosnis, the opening of borders in Kosovo, the Peace Accords in Ireland, the Levin ammendment and so many other things.

I have every right to defend my candidate of choice just as much as you had to slime Obama over and over. "If you can't stand the heat......." So let's be careful about slinging that word hypocrisy. Your hands are far from clean.

I've said it before and I'll repeat in case you missed it. Had Clinton ran the sort of campaign she did in the final month of primaries, the outcome could have been far different. Instead, she chose to listen to Mark Pann. She listened to the wrong person.

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by Arkady
I don't deny Clinton was frequently dishonest. But, as we discussed several months ago, honesty wasn't at the top of my list for political qualifications. You were the one who treated it as a must-have.
Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by shirley
Honesty and integrity will always be at the top of my list. The problem for me is that there was absolutely no reason for her lying about the things she lied about and that goes to character. I don't quantitate changing one's mind on an issue the same as lying. By the same token, sometimes compromise is the better course until one is in a position of strength to alter it at a later date.
Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by MaryAnne

Hypocracy is the right word. You cannot even stop yourself now with a Hillary smear. Arkady is dead right and you know it!

Now,you find yourself with a candidate that lies like crazy and you are saying, "Oh,that is just fine.He is just trying to win."

Your candidate has clay feet and know it.You are having trouble dealing with what a liar he is.

No,I do not like Obama,I could see what he was the first few times I saw him.And we all were right about him!

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by MaryAnne

Did Arkady strike a nerve?

You have said all kinds of things about him and the rest of us. Talk about glass houses.

That is so nice of you to say that about Hillary after dissing her for months with any right wing slander you could find.

Re: Duh - it's called winning in November
by MaryAnne

shirley:
Honesty and integrity will always be at the top of my list. The problem for me is that there was absolutely no reason for her lying about the things she lied about and that goes to character. I don't quantitate changing one's mind on an issue the same as lying. By the same token, sometimes compromise is the better course until one is in a position of strength to alter it at a later date.

But you will still vote for Obama?The biggest liar of all!

You call Obama's lies, compromise and Hillary's lies.TSK,TSK.i would quit digging if I were you!

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