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"Exactly! It doesn't matter what evidence they come up with, I'm never going to change my mind about anything."

The Creationists have had to shift there tactics of late and I am starting to think that they are having some success.

First of all, they have done an excellent job of muddying the waters. They have couched Creationism in terms of semi-scientific thought so that it is more palatable to the average person. This would be ID and the entire idea behind the "Teach the controversy" idea. The most recent, and in my opinion the best, trick that they have come up with is couching their argument as "Academic Freedom". The Louisianna bill is a good example. This bill is seemingly there to prevent the stifiling of valid scientific dissent. But what it actually is there to do is to prevent teachers from cutting of prosletyzing in the classroom by pro-creationist students. The bill also allows local school boards to apprve "Suplemental" material. I.E. Creationist literature.

The second area in which the Creationists have done an excellent job is skewing the public perception of what Evolution is. The vast majority of Americans confuse Evolution with Abiogenesis and Evolution with Atheism. This is no accident.Creationist have worked tirelessly to confuse these issues in the mind of the general public and they have been extremely successful.

If the problem were solely one of "I'm never going to change my mind" that would be one thing. If people are taught about Evolution and then choose not to believe in it, that's A-OK. you can lead a horse to water and all that. The problem is that these same people don't want ANYONE to learn about Evolution.

I'd couch it more that the ID propenents have pushed for an either/or scenario. Badgering that a person cannot believe one thing - that God had some kind of hand in it - and the other - Evolution is correct. Yes, I know - you said confusing Evolution with Athiesm, and that kind of covers it, but I think that what I said above has to be stated outright. That the ID proponents say 'one or the other' and that simply is not so.

1) Divisiveness... Make it that it MUST be one or the other

2) if you are christian you have to believe that God was involved

3) well... you ARE a good christian, aren't you?? (stampede)

Sigh.

Exactly. This is a divide and conquer method. Lots of people will go along whit the milder arguments in order to not be seen as Atheists. Once they do, they are then on the hook when the wackaloon stuff starts coming out.

Excellent point.

There is no "science" to "creation science"...there CAN'T be.

They start with an unalterable and "perfect" "truth" that they cannot vary from...that being that the Bible is inerrant and historical.

Any evidence to the contrary is rejected. And no, our creationist friends, that is NOT the case with evolution, since as noted many times the theory has been updated as new information has come in.

There is NO "updated information" that shows that the Earth is "only 10,000 years old" or that plants appeared on Earth BEFORE the Sun existed (Genesis 1:11-13).

So, unless they were willing to atleast CONSIDER rejecting their hypothesis (that the Bible is inerrant)....it cannot be called "science"....

ergo, it's a lie, first and foremost.

JGC:

Courtesy of www.fstdt.com

"Exactly! It doesn't matter what evidence they come up with, I'm never going to change my mind about anything."

MnemonicDevice

Lumpy_the_Great:

Exactly. This is a divide and conquer method. Lots of people will go along whit the milder arguments in order to not be seen as Atheists. Once they do, they are then on the hook when the wackaloon stuff starts coming out.

Excellent point.

I have my trusty mallet in hand.....

Lumpy_the_Great:

The Creationists have had to shift there tactics of late and I am starting to think that they are having some success.

The difference is they are spending their time, money and effort on PR and wedge issues, scientists are busy spending their time, effort and money on well....science.

Uncle_Spike:

The difference is they are spending their time, money and effort on PR and wedge issues, scientists are busy spending their time, effort and money on well....science.

Speaking of John Templeton! He just croaked.

It will actually be quite interesting to see what happens to his 'religious science' initiatives now. He was a major influence in the current drive to put religion back into science. Prob'ly gave all his cash to Ben Stein. Look for Expelled 2: No Movie Critics Allowed coming soon to a theatre near you!

It really sticks in your craw that the best and most logical explanation for origins is a Creator, doesn't it.

Dd

Skimpy on the data.

How was your weekend puppy? Still got all your fingers?

Actually, a better and more logical explanation (given the sad state of things) is the Incompetent Demiurge spraying obscene grafitti on the pristine walls of the spirit world by introducing the rank corruptions of matter (think of the Big Bang as an act of anarchistic bomb throwing).

Does that pass through your craw, dd?

Creationism is neither logical nor an explanation, let alone the best explanation—it simply avoids the hard work of actually deriving an explanation by writing everything off to magic.

Funny how you insist that everything came from nothing by "natural" causes. heh heh heh. What a fucking idiot. Nowhere in the universe can you point to something coming from nothing so you insist the Universe itself and Life to boot did without supernatural intelligence. ha ha ha ha ha. Real scientific. Reject the most compellig and logical explanation out of hand and go looking for imperfect solutions. Bright, real bright.

At least before the Big Bang was a proff of the beginning of the Universe you had the guts to stand for an eternal universe. Now that you have been shown to be wrong, there, why won't you carry the implication to its normal conclusion?

Let me answer that before you have a chance to ignore it or lie through your teeth (typical of God haters), the reason is, You HATE your Creator. You actually HATE the Supreme Being who gave you life, and not only that but the liberty to pursue happness.

And this passes for intelligence in your cicles. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. pathetic. No wonder star wars is behind schedule. Dumby-boys are too damned busy contemplating their freaking navels.

Dd

Not bad. Let me check... What comes after "7"?

Dd