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American patriotism
by jkodak
+1 Reply

Although it may be comforting to Democrats to think that their perceived lack of patiotism is the result of a vision that is "too high-minded or too subtle" for the masses to digest, there is, I think, a more likely explanation.

Indeed, perhap Professor Greenberg would have encountered it himself if he had focused more on policy and less on plumbing the depths of archives looking for the facile, symbolic gestures of candidates past and present.

If patriotism is defined as love or loyalty to one's country. We ought to be intellectually mature enough to recognize that the more critical political party should be seen as less patriotic and that patriotism is not necessarily a good thing in all contexts. If Democrats, particularly the left wing of the Democratic party, believe that the United States is way too capitalistic, way too militaristic, way too enamored with the gun culture, or focuses too much on the individual, then why should they consider themselves patriots. For that matter, why should they demand that others see them as patriots.

These are precisely the traits which distinguish us from the many countries on the European continent. They are also the policy traits which, generally speaking, divide the two politcal parties. Make no mistake, if the Republican party were to become extinct, the U.S. would look a lot like France in pretty short order with the exception of our poor schools and no nuclear power.

If Democrats believe that the U.S. should start behaving much more like other countries, they may be right or they may be wrong. However, they should not butcher the language and insist that they be considered as patriotic, if not more so, than their Republican brethren who consistently fight for those distinguishing features.

Grown-ups learn to make choices and discover that sometimes many of the concepts they hold dear do, in fact, contradict one another. If I beleived that I was in a quasi-fascistic state, like so many on the left say they believe, I would consider it my moral duty to be a revolutionary rather than a patriot or loyalist.

Re: American patriotism
by Dusty Bear
No, I think you've confused loyalty to one's country with loyalty to one's State (government).
Re: American patriotism
by acro101

If republicans see the US as too oppressive, too controling, not capitalist enough then why should they call themselves patriotic and why should they insist that others do so.

My taxes are too high!!!

Deregulate everything!!!

Governement is too big!!!

Keep your hands off of my guns!!!

Both sides whine and complain like school children. Get over yourself and stop pretending republicans are any less critical of the US than anyone else.

Re: American patriotism
by Liberal Patriot

I would wager that most of what you claim has been told to you and you have no credible evidence to support any of the ridiculous claims you make.

Your so blind in your party's nonsensical rhetoric that you can't see the morass we are in right now that was brought on by the deliberate actions of your party reps in office.

Real Grown Ups see and recognize reality for what it is and that is why the republicans will fail in November.

Re: American patriotism
by jkodak
I am a Republican. Reread my post. My point was to attack the Democrats' insistence on being called patriots while minimizing the values which are distinctly American.
Re: American patriotism
by jkodak
Actually, this is an important distinction. If patriotism means love of those within one's country as opposed to love of the state, I'm not sure the term is left with any meaning. Any two people who sincerely think they are doing the right thing by their fellow man would be equally patriotic. My point is that an evaluation of morality should not substitute for an evaluation of patriotism.
Re: American patriotism
by jkodak
Let me make an important concession. If the Republicans become more critical than the Democrats over time, it would not be inappropriate to label them as less patriotic. As I stated before, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Re: American patriotism
by KHpoliticalinnuendohere

I am (closer to being labeled) Democrat. I got your point, jkodak, and would like for both parties candidates to progress the argument with your distinction within it. Because it's true. But then again, were Obama to indulge us in a "Damn right, I'm not patriotic, there's too much wrong in this country" speech he wouldn't stand a chance in a Vermont city-council election.

Unfortunately for both of us, part of this patriotism debate that Greenberg didn't really address is the fact that part-and-parcel with the GOP stranglehold on the term "patriotism", is any opportunity to evaluate critically the state of our nation. Even questioning our glory is taboo.

Re: American patriotism
by KHpoliticalinnuendohere

....and yes we should be "intellectually mature enough" to grasp that distinction, but I'm not so sure we are (3/4 responders appear to have missed the distinction - and I could easily be included to make 4/4)

Re: American patriotism
by jkodak

To what ridiculous claims are your referring. Do you honestly take issue with Republicans being more protective of gun rights, free enterprise, or the size of the military? Granted individual rights in general, the hallmark of classical liberalism, is more debatable.

Re: American patriotism
by irvingchang

'But then again, were Obama to indulge us in a "Damn right, I'm not patriotic, there's too much wrong in this country" speech he wouldn't stand a chance in a Vermont city-council election.'

it worked in chicago.

Re: American patriotism
by Liberal Patriot

jkodak:
I am a Republican. Reread my post. My point was to attack the Democrats' insistence on being called patriots while minimizing the values which are distinctly American.
And you offer no credible evidence of any public display of "Democrats insistence on being called patriots". Who? When? ON what channel. At which website? I've seen Republicans on this site and on Faux Snooze making the same claims you make and they too don't back it up with names, quotes, any mass Democratic demonstrations in any specific city's streets showing Democrats holding signs that even remotely back up your unfounded and clearly tutored insinuations.

You're throwing your opinion out here as if it were fact. It isn't.

Re: American patriotism
by irvingchang

'And you offer no credible evidence of any public display of "Democrats insistence on being called patriots". Who? When? ON what channel.'

obamas little get together is st louis the other day for example. it was on all the channels.

Re: American patriotism
by jkodak
Are you aware of Countdown with Keith Olberman. He's just one man, but I think, given his ratings, he reflects the views of his audience rather well.
Re: American patriotism
by irvingchang

'Are you aware of Countdown with Keith Olberman. He's just one man, but I think, given his ratings, he reflects the views of his audience rather well.'

his audience is the 2nd shift of fry shakers who just got off duty at popeyes chicken and biscuits.

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