I posted this in another thread and the one response I received was rather close-minded, so I am hopeful that an intelligent discussion may follow through a new thread...

Re: The House Next Door (which actually was a movie in the 70's that scared the freakin crap outa me, and it was about living humans, not murdered ones)

I have lived in two "haunted" houses; in other words, there was paranormal activity in them. Research proved that there was a reason for the first (it was located on a 90 degree turn on a country road, where there had been several fatal accidents, resulting in things like phantom cars pulling in to my driveway and their occupants walking up to my door). I found no reason for the activity in the second house, which it seemed was eternally occupied by a prankster with a cat.

My point is that spirits are everywhere, sometimes not where you would believe them to be and sometimes present for no apparent reason. All places on Earth have history, including LW's and her BF's home. Perhaps she should research their house and see how the BF reacts to her possible discoveries, and determine his real character. He sounds like a wienie to me, and maybe she would be more compatible with the guy next door.

I don't know if I believe in actual 'spirits' of those who have gone before us, per se. I believe in a Christian God, though, and I believe in science as well.

I think there is such a thing as negative energy, and I think there is also such a thing as demonic influence.

Whether or not this house is actually affected by any such things is anyone's guess. But I like the observation you made in your last sentence. (That the letterwriter might be more compatible with the house buying friend.)

I questioned that when I read Prudie's column. Made me wonder if the boyfriend might feel more frightened by the friendship than the actual house.

Listen, you can post this crap a thousand times. It's crap.

I know you are but what am I?

I don't know. What does it make you? Bored? Contrary? Supporter of paranormal fraudsters? Prone to playing paper, rock, scissors?

Do you know why no one believes crap like this? Because it's just not plausible.

a. I, and no one I know has ever seen any evidence whatsoever of a spirit. If they are all over the place as you claim, why have I never experienced one?

b. It just doesn't make sense. Why would a spirit walk around on earth rehashing their deaths? If there is such a thing as a spirit and afterlife, surely it would be much grander and more organized than just a rehashing of everyone's death over and over again. If you are going to make shit up, at least make up a good story.

c. Why is it that the only people that can "see" the spirits are fruit loops that forgot to take their meds that morning? If the "spirits" really wanted to convince people of their existence, surely they would choose a conduit more convincing than yourself.

I'm not so sure I believe in spirits but here are a couple counter arguments:

1) People denied the holocaust while it was happening. Some people still deny the holocaust. Not because it wasn't true but because somethings you just don't want to face. Its horrible, awful and dirties your world view. So you close your eyes and ignore it. Same thing goes for those videos you've seen lately of people dying / injured while other people walk by. To acknowledge means you have to do something about it so it is easier just to not acknowledge.

2) "Everybody" knows that ghosts don't exist. So if you see one and decide to report it, now "everybody" knows you are crazy. Which means a good solid person, even if they can be truthful with themselves, is not going to want to talk about it with other people.

3) Not everybody that reports are fruit loops. That is a gross generalization that wouldn't stand up to any amount of scrutiny.

Your point 1. is not a fair comparison. Anyone who lived in Europe during the holocaust knows that it happened. They may deny it but they know it happened. There's a big difference between that and something like seeing spirits, which I definitely have not seen. This is not just me trying to deny something I know is true. Every place has a history, just as the OP stated. So everywhere should have spirits if they are walking around like she claims. So why is it that I have never seen one?

Your point 2) doesn't address my point b) at all. The whole situtation makes no sense. The existence of the afterlife would absolutely mean the existence of a higher order of existence then mankind is currently aware of. You really want people to believe that in this grand glory of an afterlife, in a different plane of existence, that all people do is relive their death sequences over and over and over? Not even a good story. And completely doesn't make sense.

Again, I think if you'd check your facts then you'd find something different. There has been a lot of research that shows the people of Germany systemically denied that the Jews were being killed. To themselves and do others. It's not like they were all 'oh yeah, they kill a couple thousand people a week down the block but it doesn't bother me'. Instead it was 'oh I'm sure that is just an exaggeration, the Jews are not dead, they are just deported!'. That is what I'm talking about, when one justifies a hard fact to themselves, softens it down some. We all do it all the time, its one of the coping mechanisms that are written up in psychological literature.

My point 2 was not intended to address your point b. It was a point all own its own. But really, you want to base your argument on what doesn't make sense in a religious framework? You could disprove half of all science that way! I would also argue that ghosts does not preclude an afterlife. Given that we don't know what ghosts (if anything) are, given that we don't know what (if anything) goes into an afterlife, I'm not sure how you can make the argument that they must be mutually exclusive.

Sorry, not a believer in ghosts. Especially ghosties with cats and nothing better to do than to harass strangers. Feel free to post this on the Coast to Coast website.

If these people get the willies going to a house where someone they know died, that's their right. However, there have been billions of people - and trillions or so animals - on this planet. All have died or will die, as will those to come. If every one of them left a ghost, there wouldn't be many spots left on the planet without one. The fact that no one I know to be credible has seen one leave me to suspect there aren't any.

Or do ghosts have re-expiration dates, after which they no longer get to haunt?

Oh, holy crap. I'd quit reading before I got to that punchline in the original. Thanks for bringing it back from the dead! Cat ghosts. That's the last thing we need.

The common denominator in all the these examples is the OP. I would start the investigation there.

SusanM:

Again, I think if you'd check your facts then you'd find something different. There has been a lot of research that shows the people of Germany systemically denied that the Jews were being killed. To themselves and do others. It's not like they were all 'oh yeah, they kill a couple thousand people a week down the block but it doesn't bother me'. Instead it was 'oh I'm sure that is just an exaggeration, the Jews are not dead, they are just deported!'. That is what I'm talking about, when one justifies a hard fact to themselves, softens it down some. We all do it all the time, its one of the coping mechanisms that are written up in psychological literature.

My point 2 was not intended to address your point b. It was a point all own its own. But really, you want to base your argument on what doesn't make sense in a religious framework? You could disprove half of all science that way! I would also argue that ghosts does not preclude an afterlife. Given that we don't know what ghosts (if anything) are, given that we don't know what (if anything) goes into an afterlife, I'm not sure how you can make the argument that they must be mutually exclusive.

Even if the Germans felt that the persecution was just exaggerration it is still not the same for two reasons:

1. If they felt it was exaggeration that was only because they didn't see it first hand, meaning they didn't actually know. If all the dead people of the world really roamed the earth as spirits, then everyone would have seen one first hand at least at one point in their life. Yet, I never have. No one I know ever has.

2. If the Germans did know but just said it was exaggeration to confort themselves, this is nothing more than cognitive dissonance. They still knew they just didn't admit it to themselves. Its not that I know spirits exist and don't want to admit it. It's that I have never seen any evidence whatsoever of their existence. If there was real evidence, I would be the first in line to find out more about it, because that would be an incredibly interesting event.

"But really, you want to base your argument on what doesn't make sense in a religious framework?"

Who said anything about religion. I'm saying that it doesn't make sense in any framework. I'm saying that if there is an afterlife, then it would make absolutely no sense for it to be the way people like the OP describe.