while a POW. FACT.

He was also involved in the Forrestal disaster FACT.

What you say? That wasnt his fault? We have our facts distorted?

Funny but when the Swiftboat liars wouldnt take the oath and repeat their claims it didnt matter-Kerry was a traitor despite the fully documented facts that proved him a war hero.

Time for the Dems to form a 501 group called Pilots for Truth and claim McCain was a traitor as a POW for making anti American statements and incompetent as a pilot getting shot down by WWII vintage AA and for being involved in the Forestal disaster.

We can worry about the truth when Obama is president and then just forget the whole thing.

It worked for Bush in 2004. Just lie.

The Dems wont do this of course because we're better than that. But I would love to see the cons squirm and cry foul as the truth becomes something that can be thrown out in favor of power.

I read the USA today article from 1974 on the Vietnam Veterans Against McCain website. He was hit at 4500 feet in a nose dive by a SAM, not WWII era AA, which blew his wing off.

And he explains in this interview his physical and mental state when he broke....take a read, judge for yourself. You could use a few more FACTS.

By the way, the Forrestal fire is a video and training aid seen by practically every Sailor in aviation. It is the primary reason we all recieve flight deck fire-fighting training. And if you would read more about it, McCain's aircraft was hit by a stray Zuni rocket that inadverdently fired from somewhere way forward of the location near the fantail that McCain's fully loaded and fueled aircraft was parked. Hardly the guy you can blame for "being involved in the Forrestal disaster", implying it was somehow his fault. Watch the video, you will see his jet get hit....and then moments later watch his ass climb out of his jet and jump from the nose while his aircraft was burning all around him.

134 Sailors died in that incident you are making lies about...and you have the balls to call Bush a liar sending people off to useless deaths. Amazing, your high standards of morality.... Only in this case, the information is much more readily available to you....and you still fucked it up. You and Bush are more alike than you think.

There is even a documentary about it on the History Channel or National Geographic Channel.

"134 Sailors died in that incident you are making lies about...and you have the balls to call Bush a liar sending people off to useless deaths. Amazing, your high standards of morality.... Only in this case, the information is much more readily available to you....and you still fucked it up. You and Bush are more alike than you think."

Did you bother to read my post Rubma? ALL OF IT?

My point was that the swiftboat veterans for truth LIED about Kerry. That it was a lie didnt matter-the conservative radio and tv talking heads championed the 501 group and soon the lie was truth-a propaganda operation that Goebbels would have smiled at. It took a legit war hero and made him into a traitor and called his medals worthless. Nice work! Great job making the lies into truth.

You will note that I wouldnt-no COULDNT do that to McCain. I honestly like the man. If I had to have another republican in office it would have been him-but he has thrown his original values from 2000 out the window and taken on the neocon cause.

I am a realist Rubma. I know bad things happen in war. I know McCain did his best to do his job and I know he was tortured as a POW. I would never do what I suggested. It was put out there to get the very reaction you provided so you MIGHT get what you did to Kerry in 2004 and might see just what your party is willing to do for power. Be glad most democrats have too much honesty and too much character to do what I just described.

I can hardly wait to see what great sleeze campaign the republicans have in store for us next.

The difference is that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth told the truth.

Osprey--You do know that many people who were there stood up for Kerry and that when asked to make their statements under oath NOT ONE member of the swiftboat vets would do so-FEAR OF PERJURY made them all change their tune. Of course they still spewed their lies and the Fox stooges and Rush Limbaugh and company kept the flames going so that Kerry lost the election.

The fact remains that they lied Osprey. And suprise suprise-when George W Bush was asked to testify about the intelligence about 9/11 and the intelligence that led up to the war in Iraq he too refused to do so under oath. Liars wont take the oath Osprey. Not the Switftboaters and not President George W Bush.

You are factually correct, Rubma, but you miss the point. Why did facts make no difference when Kerry had to defend his heroic record? Are only conservatives capable of heroic actions?

Surely you feel the frustration of liberals and the irony of McCain not having to defend his record?

Now, that is just not right. If they spoke the truth then why did they let Kerry get away with the falsehood for so many years? Why didn't they care that a liar was elected senator?

No, they only cared when he ran against their choice for president. Then they lied and they behaved without honor. They were the dishonorable men and I am ashamed they served in the same military I did.