Most Democrats I know live in the same world as their GOP neighbors.

They fly flags. The eat BBQ. They drive gas guzzlers. Some of them even own guns. They don't like paying taxes.

It's NATIONAL Democrats who don't get it.

Folks who say patriotism is important to them don't want a university lecture on patriotism.

They want to see you (the person running for office, say) really dig this place.

They want to see you, too, can hoist a brew with the boys and not flinch when someone gets misty-eyed about 'Nam.

If Hillary Clinton could pull this off, so can Obama. He thinks every challenge is a challenge to his intellect.

No one doubts he's smart.

They doubt he gets us.

And that's gonna cause him trouble now or later.

I guarantee that all the guys you know getting "misty-eyed" about (Viet) Nam were REMF's.

So essentially what you're saying is:

Less think'n more drink'n.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Well, acro101, people like me do get to vote and you can't do nothin' 'bout it.

The pre-requisites for voting do not include "must share intellectual pretensions of Democratic elites and engage in radical, multi-valent metacritique of post-ideological 'patriotic' discourse".

Or should we also bring back the poll tax?

Why would someone get "misty-eyed" about a horrible war? Or Any war at all? Why would anyone want to *sentimentalize* the Hell of war???

Get misty-eyed over toddlers, sunsets, kittens or even your stupid gun collection, if you must. But WAR???

I think that's just plain stupidity and I doubt that every man or woman who's been to war gets all misty-eyed.

You sound like a Mel Gibson movie. Not for real.

Jesus H., people. I didn't mean get misty-eyed over the war, as such. I meant get misty-eyed over talk about Nam: friends lost, battles bungled, the pain and horror of having GONE to Nam. Rather than, say, merely attending a teach-in on Nam.

"The pre-requisites for voting do not include "must share intellectual pretensions of Democratic elites and engage in radical, multi-valent metacritique of post-ideological 'patriotic' discourse"."

But the pre-requisite for being president include being able to develop a stable foreign policy with China while not pissing off Europe, developing an economic plan that doesn't over-regulate the markets while simultaneously preventing bubbles like the .com and housing ones that end up doing more harm than good, figuring out how to keep the price of gas below 4$ a gallon while at the same time not destroying what little untainted wilderness the US has left and then there's that whole Iraq thing and then there's that whole Iran thing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

But no, you're right, crack'n a Bud seems like a far more important thing for the president to be worrying about. I know that what I think about when the future of this country and the world is at stake is "Has our leader drank enough beer with some beer drink'n people lately." That's clearly what the future hinges on.

"The pre-requisites for voting do not include "must share intellectual pretensions of Democratic elites and engage in radical, multi-valent metacritique of post-ideological 'patriotic' discourse"."

That was amazing ... I'm using that in the future.

Richmond,

Patrotism, or at least the traditional outward expressions of patriotism as we come to think of them, are, unfortunately, a cultural thing.

It used to be that lefites and righties could both get a little misty eyed when they heard the Star Spangled Banner, and could say such things as "God Bless America" without any "but..." attached to it.

At some point, and yes, I point to the cultural earthquake which began in the elite leftist circles in the late-50's and metastasized into the masses by the '70s, a cynicism about the government hardened into an ambivalence about the country.

Expressions of patriotism unfortunately meant to suggest that you were totally in line with the government and its policies at the moment. So, lefties became embarrassed to run the flag up the flagpole; "God Bless America" became hokey and a square, and so on. If you weren't a cynical, angry, turned-in little brat, werent Constantly Outraged at how horrible the US was, constantly trying to examine the USA's dark underbelly, you we're some dope who didn't think too hard.

I want the left to start using these traditional patriotic expressions again. I believe they truly do love their country. I think that ugly, '60s Counter Culture has run its course. I think the reactionary culture which it railed against is tired now too.

I want to know I can rely on them when the chips are down, not just to be the guys who constantly criticize their country. If they believe the hard right co-opted these symbols, they should take them back.

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'll say it here, too.

Take it from immigrants. Every year, the U.S. welcomes more legal (not just illegal) immigrants than the rest of the world combined. Read it again.

Not everyone wants to be an immigrant. Most folks are happy where they are. But of the people who immigrate, the U.S. is and remains the #1 choice destination.

They're not high-tailin' it to Toronto or Paris if they can get to Miami or Duluth.

We're doing something right. Would it kill the left to acknowledge this? You know, listen to new Americans?

They come here despite our gun-totin, Bud-swillin, Bible-thumpin', Nam-mistin' brothers and sisters in some states.

They come here despite domestic surveillance programs. Despite George Bush. Despite our lack of national health care.

They'll continue to come here if McCain wins in November.

Ask any immigrant: Do you like the U.S. Invariably, they break into tears. All they ever wanted was to come to the U.S. and live here and be Americans.

Some folks are dying to come to this country. And some of us merely deign to live here.

So well said. There are literally people dying to come to the United States.

I do believe the left loves their country, but they aren't really able to be a fool for love, so to speak. At best, they load their "patriotism" up with so many reservations, caveats and codicils, you can't really hear what it is that they love about their country.

Instead of just having a flag on their car, they have to have a little lesson beneath it: "Peace is Patriotic" (whatever that weird non sequitor means). They can't just fly the flag, it's got to have a peace symbol on it. And so forth.

They are always doing everything they can to show that they stand aside from and away from "America" which is some weird abstraction over there some place, that they are the exception to "those Americans."

I think a fair number of immigrants are disillusioned upon arriving...

I think the reason for this is the viewpoint that is now firmly attached to flag patriotism.

I am one who doesn't think he is smart. I see him as one who can read speeches that somebody else wrote for him and parrot words off of a piece of paper.

When asked what he thinks without somebody there to write it down for him he stutters and stammers so bad it is painful to watch. If he were really smart, he would realize that he is not experienced or knowledgeable enough to run this country.

And if he REALLY loved this country he would not be selfish enough to run for president knowing he is NOT qulaified in any way, shape or form. He would bow out now before he destorys this country further.

Great post. We have a bunch of spoiled whiny babies here who blame our government for everything when in reality a lot of it is their own darn lazy fault.