...is a subject I wish to leave for another posting, and instead use this posting to discuss people's interest in truth:

Do you really think only four countries lack paid matenity leave?

Consider that MOST of the countries in the world are hell holes of poverty where FEW people actually HAVE jobs--as jobs are considered to be in America. Of those, probably essentially NONE offer jobs to women. Of the few that may offer jobs to women, is there ENFORCEMENT of a maternity leave provision? Can the populace even READ the "laws" so as to be informed of what they are?

So, hey, it's WONDERFUL to hear that they have paid maternity leave in the SUDAN, CHAD, CAMBODIA, and on and on....yes, that's just ONE WONDERFUL THING about those countries--boy, it's just lovely to think that, being a pit of death aside, at least those poor women can get some financial support from their employers after giving birth!!

Is no one willing to laugh out loud at that concept?

But the point I'm trying to make: People who want to make political arguments seem to give no thought to what the facts might be, or have any interest in the real truth of the matter--as long as a handy STATISTIC or LIST is available for a bout of sanctimony and indignation.

Wow, that has to be the most idiotic post on any subject that I've read on this fray. Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment!

Seriously, the fact that we have no paid maternity leave AND no paid prenatal care is a travesty and just further proof that America only serves those who can afford it. When even poverty stricken countries find it important enough to give 10+ weeks paid maternity leave and we find it so UNimportant as to offer ZERO weeks, that just shows how f***ed up our country and health care system are. Newsflash, it is a very physically taxing thing to carry around a fetus/baby inside you then to give birth. The LEAST the gov't can do is give 4 weeks for simple recovery. Until this happens (and until we cover ALL basic health necessities like most everywhere else does too), we cannot claim to be a superpower or the best country on earth...

DoctorJ, I think you completely missed the point of that original post.

Yes, it IS a travesty that we are one of the only developed countries without paid parental leave and prenatal care. However, the XX post said we were one of the only countries in the WORLD without paid leave, and that is patently untrue.

There are plenty of countries where they think they are doing awesome if there is boiled water and soap at a birth. People are living in shantytowns, on a bowl of rice a day, and even if the government wanted to throw some money at the pregnant ones, there is NO MONEY to throw!

Really.

Freki

Thanks Freki. Apparently DoctorJ has another planet in mind.

I'm quite sure that in many of those "paid maternity leave" countries (from "the list") that if a local woman were informed that she is legally entitled to paid maternity leave her response would be "What's that? Leave from what? Nobody every paid me for anything I ever did; I heard that some people once got paid money to harvest somebody else's crop--but I'm not sure I believe it."

Actually you're both missing the point. To counter "everyone except us has maternity leave" with "but countries 193-257 don't even have modernized health care" is completely missing the point. The point is that not only do ALL the countries that have health care systems remotely close to our level, or even far below our level offer 12+ weeks paid maternity, but most of those who don't have modern health care also offer paid maternity leave. That's the point of bringing up the laundry list of countries that believe something is important while we do not.

If we want to compare apples to apples, we're so woefully behind it's embarassing. I think saying we're on the level of Papua New Guinea is pretty embarassing, but what about when we say that all of Europe offers 6-18 months to our ZERO, then we wonder why they're healthier, happier and kicking our asses economically. People bring up those tiny, impoverished countries because it's too embarassing to compare us to our peers...

DoctorJ, you perfectly typify the sort of idiot I'm trying to target: someone more interested in political bloviating than actual reality.

I said specifically in my VERY FIRST SENTENCE that the POINT I was making had nothing to do with maternal leave--but apparently you're so consumed by your own priorities that you can't even actually read what's written.

The point, AGAIN, should be obvious: REAL human problems are not solved by political sloganeering and the use of statistics or rankings that don't really mean what they APPEAR to mean.

Do you REALLY believe that the US is the fourth worst place to live on this planet in terms of the treatment of women, economically, medically, or politically? If you do you should probably escape before it's too late. Try Zimbabwe--they are, after all, superior regarding maternal leave :) ....they probably don't even have the death penalty--the charming local sport of necklacing notwithstanding ;)

StevieN. Why don't you just write my response for me, as you apparently know me so well and are making arguments on my behalf that have nothing to do with the arguments at hand.

I think my points stand. Your initial and subsequent posts are classic republican idiocy. The question is, why does the US not have maternal leave policies in line with ALL the rest of the known world, even places far poorer than us w/inferior infrastructure and health care. Your answer - who cares, if you think it's so bad then move to Zimbabwe you idiot.

Did I ever say the US was the 4th worst in anything except maternal leave? Quote me then. Of course care here is better than some places that have maternal leave. So what, was anyone arguing otherwise? That has absolutely nothing to do with why our policies are so far worse than everyone else's that has facilities and wealth anywhere near ours.

Your point is pointless. If we don't show just how horribly backwards our policies are, how will anyone know they need changing? These rankings truly do mean what they mean. There is a list of 100s of countries with true leave policies of at least 10-12 weeks. We have ZERO weeks. How is that a misleading statistic? Because the quality of care is different? What about all the countries in Europe where it's far better even tho our economy is stronger? Get a real argument and maybe we can have a real debate next time...

DoctorJ:

... The question is, why does the US not have maternal leave policies in line with...

Sorry DoctorJ. I didn't even read your entire post after reading the above. When I make a post and start a thread, the question is what I SAY it is, not what you want it to be for ME. My statements have nothing to do with maternal leave. I'm sorry you're cognitively unable to comprehend that.

StevieN,

It may be a debating point with you but to compare yourself and your country's reprehensible policies with the likes of Burkino Faso, Paraguay, Honduras and Nepal just to score debating points but this just shows how low and desperate the right wing has become.

Basically anyone with even half a brain can compare your abysmal stats to other (more) developed countries (OECD, EEC, etc.) and see what a hash you are making of it.

Military Industrial Complex and fundamentalist simpletons excepted, of course! In no other counry are these groups so pampered and pandered to.

I'm afraid I have to admit, Slawrence5, that I don't understand what you're saying. First of all, I offer no stats.