Reagan's call for an "unambivalent" patriotism and the Bush "with us or against us" attitude come a lot closer to Uber-nationalism or fascism than to true patriotism.

Bush made the ludicrous claim that terrorists attacked us because they "hate our freedom." Perhaps his illegal electronic surveillance of US citizens or denial of trials and Habeas Corpus not to mention the new requirement for Americans to have passports to enter their own country from Canada will help. After all it seems reasonable to assume that if terrorists truly "hate our freedom" then taking away our freedom will make them like us better.

We are priveleged to live in a country where we can speak our minds, choose our religion, and vote for our leaders. We are fortunate to not have to worry about our neighbors tunring us in to the secret police or having to "show our papers" to travel within our own borders. We have the right to challenge our governments policies through protests and the courts. We have presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law...

Patriotism does not mean turning a blind eye to abuses of law or lies by our government it means standing up for our rights and those of others. It means letting our representatives know our views and holding them accountable if they won't listen. It means protesting illegal wars. It means taking a stand even when the safe thing to do is to remain silent.

This is true patriotism.

Ignorable tripe, generally. But let me correct you on one point. War is the application of force to resolve a dispute that cannot be settled through agreement or legal process. It is, in a sense, extra-legal. From an international perspective, war cannot be "illegal." Of course, if you are referring to the current war as being against the laws or the Constitution of the United States...well, that's just stupid. Even while a few aspects of the war have been challenged and even fewer have been found to involve unconstitutional practices (in 5-4 opinions, no less!), that's very different from an "illegal war."

And for every abuse of power that Liberals see, there's a Liberal policy that appears as an abuse of power to the majority of Americans which are not Liberals. Tax policy is an obvious example, in which non-Liberals feel that giving more than half of your income to the state, local and Federal governments in taxes is opressive and, in the truest sense, makes us slaves to our government.

The biggest lie of the left is that they believe in freedom.

You have to ask yourself whether you'd rather give up your money to the government (like the lefties) or give up more money to corporations (like the righties).

War can't be illegal? Tell that to the Nazis who were tried at Nürnberg! lol

FaxMeBeer:

The biggest lie of the left is that they believe in freedom.

Coincidently, that's the biggest lie of the right, too!.

FaxMeBeer:

And for every abuse of power that Liberals see, there's a Liberal policy that appears as an abuse of power to the majority of Americans which are not Liberals. Tax policy is an obvious example, in which non-Liberals feel that giving more than half of your income to the state, local and Federal governments in taxes is opressive and, in the truest sense, makes us slaves to our government.

The biggest lie of the left is that they believe in freedom.

Want to pay lower taxes? Fair enough. First we need to pay off our entire national debt which stands at $9.4 trillion. <link> Once this debt is paid then we have to look at where to cut. Should we cut our defense budget? Should we cut FEMA? Road construction and maintenance funds? Police and fire protection perhaps? EPA or other regualtory agencies? Meidcare? VA benefits?

The biggest lie of the right is that we can continue to cut taxes indefinately and yet we have a $9.4 trillion bill that needs to be paid sooner or later. Tax cuts are really tax delays and the debt will need to be paid, with interest, in the future.

To borrow a line from the right "freedom isn't free."

Corporations are limited by competition and desire. The government is limited only by the extent to which the majority is willing to take from the minority. One doesn't have to buy most of what corporations sell -- there's a basic level of choice. One is compelled by threat of violence and incarceration to give the government that which it demands.

Of course, cut all of those things. Cut welfare, get rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the EITC, the Federal Department of Education, HUD.

Of course, your nod toward true fiscal conservatism belies the fact that Liberal tax policy isn't about funding basic services, it's about the redistribution of wealth. Fiscal Liberalism is, by definition, an attack on the right to own personal property. As such, the very concept of Fiscal Liberalism is an attack on freedom.

The Nazis weren't tried for waging war, they were tried for crimes against humanity which they committed in the execution of the war.

You do get to choose which company to be a customer to, if you were interested in cellphones or clothes.

With essential services like power and healthcare where you don't actually have a choice (I can't choose not to go to a hospital for example), privatization can and most likely will lead to spiraling costs and inefficient services -- which is what happened in my home country.

At least with the government you get to vote them out every 4 years.

The government has been enmeshed in the economic life of the nation for a good century, through regulatory powers and then taxation and even controlling the money supply, and finally in wealth redistribution since the 30s. Are you saying you have a problem with this? It sounds like your patriotism is a little ambiguous to me.

You don't like the electric company? Put a windmill in your back yard -- or go solar. Don't like your insurance company? Get a new one. There are entire groups within this country who have lived off the grid for as long as there's been a grid (think: Amish) -- so I suppose that being a consumer at any level is completely the choice of the individual. But, even those who choose to grow their own food and live without electricity still have to pay income tax if they sell a pie. Death and taxes.

That Liberals have a hard time presenting themselves as the true defenders of freedom against the fascist onslaught by the Right when Liberalism in and of itself is an attack on personal freedom.

The above is a statement of fact, not an illustration of my own view of patriotism.

But that statement of "fact" is as much an illustration of your patriotism as anyone else's opinion on America. You just want to assert that your criticism is valid, while others' is unpatriotic.