Chuck Hagel (Army) and Jim Webb (Marine) have made the argument that McCain's view of Iraq would be different if McCain had been on the ground in Vietnam. Hagel and Webb's view of that war was through a brutal and bloody lens. Unlike Clark, they managed to make this argument in a direct and clear manner - without insulting McCain. I agree, Clark has a tin-ear and he blew it - big time.

I don't have any military experience but I listen and it seems to me the experience on the ground and in the air can be summed up in two words - air conditioning.

How about summing it up in just one word: SHOWERS

From a secured airbase, pilots dont see the casualties of war. And it is a good thing. If they actually saw the results of a napalm run on innocent civilians, they'd have a mental breakdown. Fact is that bombs kill women, children, mice, pets, old men, and sometimes a combatant, often however a friendly. Pilots are hermetically sealed from the human perspective of war. To them it's a video game. McCain's rhetoric displays it every time he opens his mouth on the subject. He was brutalized, and he survived. But he joined the service for glory, daddy and granddaddy did and all the boys and girls back home cheered. McCain has been feeding from the silver spoon since birth. And his sons continue the tradition. I'd like to see more swabbies who are proven leaders in the military sent to the academy instead of these spoiled rich boys with their convictions of entitlement.

I've got some friends that are in Balad right now that fly. Balad is attacked by indirect fire more than any other base in the AOR. It also has one of the larger hospitals in the area. My friends that you claim are innoculated against war are under attack regularly by indirect fire, get shot at regularly as they ascend out of Balad (C-130's), and when they aren't flying...they are volunteering to offload the wounded and dead. The wounded and dead include Iraqi civilians. So yes, I disagree with your assumption that aircrew are innoculated from the human perspective of war.

...point. the point is bud, you need to be on the ground, to see war. what is war? the sheer waste of humanity. the fuck ups that are done despite the best competence and best intentions. to see the real victims. on long range recon, is to hear the gurgle and feel the tremble of a female guard who detected your squad and she had to be knifed so that the squad will live. the dangers of patrol, the risks. all this a commander should know before he orders his soldiers into the theater. GWB was military, but he took the Iraq war way too lightly. had he served in a combat zone, he would have know from the start that the victims of his war would be his own men, even if not physically wounded, the civilians in the area, and all the other damage that occurs, aside from the uniformed combatants trading a firefight.

I think you have been reading all the wrong fiction novels.

Tell an 8th air force vet that he doesn't know war.

They suffered the highest rate of atrition of any US combat unit durring WWII maybe of all time.

47,483 casualties ~27,000 killed

For you math fans out there, that is nearly half of the entire US combat related deaths for all of Veitnam, suffered by the 8th airforce alone... in 19 months as opposed to 7 years.

I'm sure they had no idea what war was all about.

You are right showers works. I repeat, I have no military experience and I am sure I would not make it through boot camp. I didn't mean to insinuate that serving in the air force is a cake-walk. Jusy that veterans of Vietnam who served on the ground have a different perspective - one tha is well worth considering.