Feminism made women who wanted to be treated like ladies go through the same problems men go through.

Men are not treated as nice as women think.

And now, with their silly fight on "liberation", women are experiencing the same problems.

And now even those who didn't join that fight are treated like crap, thanks to these women.

Most women like to be treated like ladies, feminism killed that.

Men don't open the door to women as they used to and the list is infinite on what women lost with the fight that a few stoned and drunk, bra-burning flower children did years ago.

Thank you feminists! now the world treats us like men and even feminists don't like that and now they cry on splled milk.

Yes! Let's go back to the days when a man could rape his secretary (or daughter), she would get pregnant out of wedlock, and everyone would scorn her as the "fallen tramp" they Knew her to be! Yes, the good old days! Hurrah for them! Secrecy, stigma and shame for All the (other) women not deemed lady-like to deserve having doors held open for them.

Yeah, you should get to know what a 1950's era woman went through, who had that happen to her. Then, maybe you'd be singing a different tune.

when was rape legal? please answer..ive got a bet on this...

The shame and stigma felt by women was such that it was, de facto, Legal. Until Feminism shone light onto this and other practices suffered by women, at the hands of men. Shame and stigma still exist, but they are much lessened these days. Not that you would know.

ahh, defacto, as in perceived...or imagined..so it never was legal....

and any shame you have is all yours...your making.

Yeah mara, you had it so bad in this country. What I found interesting though is how some feminists have mistaken common courtesies with patronizing. Take for instance holding a door for somebody who is coming up behind you. I've had several occassions where women in this country get all put-out when you hold a door for them. Well lets see; I do that for most anybody when coming or going from a building, its called manners.

But there was this one time that I got the last laugh. I was coming out of this office building which had one of those heavy glass & metal piston-operated doors. As I was exiting the building, I held the door for a woman who was right behind me. Well instead of being grateful, she read me the riot act for being a chauvinist and then said that she could open a door herself. I noticed that she was standing right in the center of the door; so with that I said "Have it your way" and let the door fly back into her face. She recieved a bloody nose over the episode as I walked away laughing.

Yeah; feminists are a hoot.

Marital rape was legal in every state in the Union until 1976.

Of course, during slavery, raping slaves was fine since they belonged to you anyway.

For a long time, women who experienced date rape were assumed to have "given it up" and were ostracised as sluts. If they got pregnant, that was added stigma for them and for the child. My maternal grandmother's birth certificate has a GIANT red "Illegitemate" stamp on the front.

I can provide links if you want, but a quick Google search will give you the same information.

Freki

Heh.. redleopard, the woman who read you the riot act for common courtesy definitely has a problem, but it isn't feminism. Her problem was being a whiny bitch. Please don't tar all us feminists with that unpleasant woman's brush.

Women who are genuinely interested in being treated as equals will hold the door for you, if they get to the door first, and thank you if you hold it open for them.

They will thank you for giving them your seat when they are big pregnant and on the bus, and will give up their seat (when not hugely pregnant) to a guy who is carrying a giant bag of groceries.

They (we) follow the rule that the person who suggests a dinner date, pays for dinner. Everyone should get the opportunity to treat their honey once in a while; it's nice.

Some women have such low personal self-esteem that they choose to use their womanhood as a club. These are the same chicks who use their sexuality as a tool to get men to do what they want. I have no desire to be in the company of women like that.

Freki

I think that whats needed in today's culture and society(and taught first in the family unit and then in the schools) is the basic priciples of Manners & Respect. This would help smooth out alot of the rough edges and disrespect which is so rampant these days.

My wife is a military veteran who used to work on jet engines and she is college-educated.(And she can handle an assault rifle and pistol really well) We both like to work on our cars and work doing landscape & home improvement projects around our house. We brought-up our daughter to handle herself(black belt in martial arts) and strive to be the best she can be. But we also brought-up all our kids up on the principles of manners and respect. It is really pleasant to see them behave towards others using these virtues.

I think martial arts helps build a courteous society in several ways. First of all, boy, I was casual or impolite to Sensei maybe twice before I learned that lesson. Years of enforced politeness drills taught me to say "thank you" for all sorts of stupid stuff.

"KNUCKLEPUSHAAAAAAP!!"

"THANK YOU SENSEI!!"

And in the other sense, knowing that I am strong and fit and capable of taking care of myself builds confidence. It is the people without confidence in themselves who are offended if beaten in a contest by a girl, or alternately, feel it necessary to berate strangers in the vague hope that telling you that you are a piece of shit who will never understand the glorious power of their womynly goddesshood.

Unfortunately, Sensei also taught me that I may not just haul off and sock someone, although at times I have some crazy Pulp Fiction urges.

"Say "yoni" again, bitch! SAY "YONI" AGAIN!!"

*sigh*

Freki

well redleopard, I'll have to agree with you that manners and respect are really the basis of everything we're discussing here. And as a woman I can understand your frustration with the whole door-opening issue.

Here's my particular view: what about women being courteous to other women? I sometimes hold doors open for older women, or even older couples. I almost never receive a thank you or acknowledgement of any kind (despite living in the supposedly courteous South). Obviously my attempt at kindness has nothing to do with sexism, it's everything to do with manners and courtesy.

You are confusing definitions. When rape is defined, it is defined as a crime, and therefore rape was never legal. But "marital rape" was not defined, and without a definition is a meaningless term. It is like saying Hate Crimes were legal before, because there was no definition, even though most of the actions defined as hate crimes are also outlawed by virtue of being, uhm, crimes. The concept of marital rape appears oxymoronic to many, since marriage by itself gives the superficial impression of consensual sex between the married parties. Even today the definition is not consistent, and anything that actually qualifies as marital rape would probably also be a different crime, like assualt, even without a specific definition of marital rape.

Well, then, the answer to oicuateonetwo's question is "not applicable".

That may be legally and technically correct, but it doesn't make for the best conversation....

Freki

"She recieved a bloody nose over the episode as I walked away laughing" -redleapard

No one here notices that this person slammed a door in a PERSON'S face, giving them a bloody nose (I don't care if it was a man or a woman)??

And brags about it? And then goes on to regale us about how mportant MANNERS are??

Whoa. Hey that was not only unmannerly, that was assault.