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McCain as Heroic Survivor
by TheBell
+4/-1 Reply

Barack Obama first responded to Wesley Clark’s recent comments about John McCain by saying he honored McCain’s past heroism and service to his country and that disparagement of military service was always wrong. Next, his campaign announced he rejected Clark’s statement. Yesterday, he described Clark’s comments as “inartful.”

None of this was good enough for the McCain campaign. They called it attack politics as usual and responded by viciously attacking every Obama surrogate in sight. Clark’s comments, no matter how he subsequently “sugar-coated them,” meant to disparage McCain’s heroism. Jim Webb’s suggestion that McCain ought to “calm down” meant to disparage McCain’s heroism. It is probably only a matter of time before we learn the purpose of Obama’s American flag lapel pin is to disparage McCain’s heroism. McCain’s handlers insists all is being done with “a wink and a nod” from Obama himself.

Personally, I disagree strongly with what Clark said.

I do not dispute the part about how showing courage and fortitude as a soldier in battler is different from exercising command-level judgment and learning from that the judgment. This is simple fact and dovetails nicely with Obama’s own long-standing argument that he displayed superior judgment in opposing the Iraq War that McCain helped authorize President Bush to conduct.

Where I disagree with Clark is his contention that McCain’s experiences as a prisoner of war are “irrelevant” as to how he might conduct himself as Commander-in-Chief. I think they played a major role in shaping McCain’s character and worldview; I really cannot imagine how they could have failed to do so. To that end, they are very much fair game for consideration.

Although McCain has a reputation for public modesty when it comes to talking about his POW experiences, he has not been above pulling them out to his advantage, especially when he sees them as putting critics in their appropriate place. When he ran for a U.S. House seat after living in Arizona for less than a year, some questioned whether he met the state residency requirement. “The longest place I ever lived was Hanoi,” McCain snapped back. The objections faded away.

In this year’s primary season, McCain has become especially fond of relating the story of fellow POW Mike Christian, who stitched together a homemade American flag to which American prisoners said the Pledge of Allegiance daily, despite North Vietnamese jailers severely beating him for doing so. “Mike came from a very poor family,” as McCain likes to tell it. “He didn't own a pair of shoes until he was thirteen years old.”

Charlotte Strong Neal, Christian's wife, admits the tale has grown a bit in the telling. “Every time I see John, I tell him Mike had shoes,” she says demurely. McCain realizes nothing disturbs the prosaic nobility of a hero more than facts.

An Associated Press article of almost exactly one year ago suggests that recalling his military past might be key to John McCain's political success. “Being a POW is at the core of McCain's appeal to voters and talking about it more would help re-invigorate his sagging Presidential bid,” according to Merle Black, a political scientist at Emory University.

“But it's not enough to base a Presidential campaign on,” Black fretted. “That's not the part of John McCain that's controversial.” [my emphasis] Perhaps astute McCain handlers recognized that Clark’s valid but sensitive criticisms of McCain could give this issue the fire it previously lacked.

So let us look at McCain’s military service and how it shaped him. He grew up in the shadow of a famous father and grandfather, both of whom were Admirals in the U.S. Navy, the grandfather during World War II and the father eventually rising to become commander of all U.S. forces in Europe and later the Vietnam theater. By his own admission, McCain says he both adulated and resented his father.

The elder McCains were the sort of military men of whom Wesley Clark would approve for Commander-in-Chief. McCain’s story is quite different. He followed the family tradition and entered the U.S. Naval Academy. Once there, he immediately began displaying his famous “maverick streak.” His instructors at the time had other names for it, such as insubordination and stupidly stubborn. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point. McCain finished fifth from the bottom at Annapolis.

Once commissioned, he continued his stubborn streak, insisting that his commanding officers did not know how to fight and win a war. However, he was brave and desired to make a name for himself and volunteered for many dangerous missions.

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying one such mission over Hanoi when a missile hit his Skyhawk dive-bomber at forty-five hundred feet. McCain managed to eject but the force of it knocked him unconscious and broke his right leg and both arms. He parachuted into a lake from which the North Vietnamese pulled him out. A mob quickly gathered on shore. McCain received a bayonet wound to the foot and a rifle butt was smashed against his shoulder.

After transport to Hanoi's main prison, jailers continued beating him for several days before, according to McCain, he called for an officer and agreed to give his captors military information in exchange for transport to a hospital. McCain said he told the North Vietnamese his ship's name, his squadron number, and confirmed his target as the local power plant. This was against the military code of conduct but no one could surely blame him for doing so in his pain and desperation.

By now the North Vietnamese realized they had captured the son of a famous Admiral. They returned him to prison and placed him in solitary confinement for some time. Eventually, they decided it might be good public relations to free him and asked him repeatedly if he wished release. McCain bravely refused this option unless also extended to prisoners held longer then him.

By August of 1968, the North Vietnamese lost interest in any special uses for McCain and brought him to a room where guards and interrogators charged into him, beating and kicking him until he “lay on the floor, bloody, arms and legs throbbing, ribs cracked, several teeth broken off at the gum line.” Next placed on “torture ropes,” McCain held out for several days before eventually breaking down and agreeing to sign a confession that he was a war criminal.

Again, no one could blame him for doing so after such an ordeal. In The Nightingale's Song, McCain describes himself as so ashamed that he attempted suicide but his guards stopped him. His captors placed with other prisoners at this time.

In an interview with ABC News’s Charles Gibson, McCain said that during his captivity he “grew to love America.” Does this mean, as some have claimed of Michelle Obama for a similar comment on her part, that McCain did not love America before? No, I believe that, like Michelle, McCain came to fully understand and appreciate how much he had always loved and been proud of his country. Her revelation was enabled by a dream come true, his by a nightmare realized.

The North Vietnamese held McCain prisoner a total of five and half years. Upon his release, after a period of healing and recuperation, McCain returned to active duty. He assumed command of a training squadron stationed in Florida in 1976. It was an undistinguished squadron but he turned it around eventually helped it win its first Meritorious Unit Commendation. This was McCain’s first and only legitimate example of the command-level experience of which Clark spoke, albeit in a non-combat situation.

Unfortunately, during this same period, McCain began a series of extramarital affairs that resulted in the destruction of his first marriage. He soon re-married but ultimately decided to leave the Navy because he said he realized his career has been too mediocre overall, lacking any major sea commands, to earn him promotion to full Admiral.

So how did all of this ultimately shape John McCain? He was the rebellious son of a distant if not outright estranged father, determined to win recognition, when he was suddenly and unexpectedly hit by the comprehension that terrible people existed in the world that hated both him and his country sufficiently to hurt them. Gee, of what other contemporary GOP politician does McCain’s story remind me?

Some Republicans have characterized McCain as the former military man most ready to be President and Commander-in-Chief since Eisenhower. Yet the defining event of McCain’s military career suggests he equates more closely to a Nazi Holocaust survivor as opposed to a victorious Allied commander.

Make no mistake, McCain’s courage and nobility in the face of imprisonment and torture are heroic and admirable. He was the kind of individual every soldier hopes he would be under similar circumstances. His subsequent political success and ability to rise above the pain and degradation imposed upon him are also admirable but it would be foolish to assume these have not left deep and long-lasting scars.

McCain is foremost a survivor and while that means he has many laudable personal qualities, it offers two very disturbing insights into how he might function as Commander-in-Chief. First, he tends to see every threat as absolute evil to our absolute good. Love of country is a fine thing but absolutes can be dangerous. Second, a survivor seeks to survive at all costs. This works fine on a battlefield but, at some point, it is necessary to weigh national security against our standing in the international community and our moral values.

The downside of being a fighter is a tendency to see everything as a fight. Can we endure a McCain Presidency of further ignoring international law, purposefully antagonizing those who disagree with us, abusing the goodwill of our allies, and pulling down the Constitution and civil rights in the name of exigencies? I argue these are exactly things that will make us less safe in four years than we are today, just as we are less safe today after a similar approach by President Bush than we were pre-September 11.

John McCain is so fearful of the hatred and violence of Islamic extremist terrorists that he lacks the ability to make judgments about Islamic extremism and terrorism in a clearheaded and reliable fashion. I say this clouded judgment is from fear. The poster Thrasymachus argues with me that military matters are the only ones for which McCain has any genuine passion. I do not see those two things as contradictory; fear is a type of passion, after all.

McCain’s fear is completely understandable. If I suffered from nightmares in which bad guys were coming back to put me up on ropes and break my legs again, I would be prone to reactionary responses too. Anybody would. Nevertheless, we do not need our next President to be somebody who is afraid, even somebody who can be a brave and stubborn survivor in spite of their fear. Instead, we need somebody whose judgment can balance risk with opportunity, somebody who can counter fear with the greater bravery of hope in something better as possible.
Re: McCain as Heroic Survivor
by theNairobiTrio

Jesus, TB - why don't you take us from the dining room to the living room around the freakin barn? Your point, which is actually interesting, appears almost at the very end.

But your analysis of how his captivity has affected his views on jihadists is, I think, flawed by your acquiescence in this piece of nonsense:

and unexpectedly hit by the comprehension that terrible people existed in the world that hated both him and his country sufficiently to hurt them.

I don't think you fully comprehend the degree to which we generate our own hatred, and have since 1898.

That realization would have to come before any adjustment in McCain's (and your) attitudes.

Er, except Clark didn't say "irrelevant".
by tartuffe

He said it did not constitute "qualification" for President (Duh!).

I mean, not to blow a fatal hole in your central thesis, 'r anything.

Re: McCain as Heroic Survivor
by zuko

I have already taken steps to have this post removed
and stricken from the public conciousness. Those
commie Dem bastards would have a field day with
this sort of shameless clarity of thought.

and shame on you ,

z

Re: McCain as Heroic Survivor
by DallasNE

The key point in your post is McCain's long history of being stubborn. He has that trait in common with George W. Bush.

Replacing a stubborn idiot with a stubborn old fool is not what this country needs right now. In fact, Bush's stubborn streak is what got us into Iraq in the first place. What happened in Iraq was both predictable and predicted. What Obama said in 2002 simply reflected that common wisdom.

This was Clark's point and I agree with it. McCain's surogates always attempt to wrap McCain's POW status around every foreign policy issue. While that has shaped McCain's life it has not changed his stubborn ways and that impacts his judgement much more than his honorable military service, including his years as a POW.

What Amazes Me
by ducadmo

is that polls consistently tell us that eighty percent of us believe this nation is headed the wrong direction and yet more than forty percent of us are determined to keep going down that path.

Though I have no doubt that John McCain would be a better commander in chief than his predecessor, I have no reason to believe he would be any less rash, any more honest, or motivated by any higher vision than militaristic adventurism.

If there is one quality that distinguises him from the current occupant of that office - it may be that he is capable of enough introspection to admit mistakes. It is a quality that would be sorely tested.

Although I am certain McCain would be a better commander-in-chief than Bush, I fear it is the only requisite of that office in which he has a demonstrable talent.

Personally
by yastfort

I don't see any tendencies or obsessions in McCain's post torture survivor's professional or personal life that would cast doubts on his abilities to function as at least an average, possibly superior, President & CIC. And unlike the prior boy-in-office I really would relish having a drink with the guy.

In John's case, I like the man but I have never liked the Party he represents. Sure those 38% Bush approvers will hold their noses and vote for McCain because they hope he'll maintain the status quo in policy but deep down they know once he's on top he'll become his own man and that's what really scares them.

Survivors of that magnitude don't worry about fights they can't win and aren't afraid of those they can.

Re: McCain as Heroic Survivor
by LaurieAnnM

Hi Bell. Glad you agree that Clark's statements were wrong in your view, also.

As to the rest of your post. It was very informative. I hadn't known so many of the details of McCain's beatings and his time as a POW. But, I did know much of it.

Interesting.

The man certainly has been through The Crucible.

And like a crucible , the question may be..has it made him as strong as steel or has it it made him a wild card, as you infer?

Probably a good deal of the former and a good bit of the latter ,as well.

But, no more of a wild card than Obama, who is a total, untested roll of the dice.

Best to you, as always.

There's only one way for Obama to
by justoffal

screw up his nomination and that is to get anywhere near McCain's service record.

It is the one fuse that leads back to the one stick of dynamite that is firmly planted in his under-briefs. He needs to spell it out to all of his surrogates to stay the HELL AWAY FROM IT.

That is not to protect John McCain, that is to protect his own (Obama's) chances...it is the one issue that he simply cannot compete on, cannot win on and CANNOT under any circumstances make an issue out of unless he just wants to throw the fight and I'm not even an Obama fan while saying this.... it's just plain smart politics versus stupid, neanderthal, Homer Simpson type politics....that simple. Obama is not stupid by a long shot...but some of his surrogate are well....let's just be polite and say that with friends like them who needs enemas? ( Yeah, enemas ).

NYT Sunday Mag a few weeks ago
by rundeep

ran an interesting story about how McCain's POW days took him out of the ground war relatively early on. It gave him a different experience of that war, which may in part explain why he views Iraq as winnable -- he didn't see the hopelessness of Viet Nam as a ground fighter, he clung to hope as a prisoner. <link>

That article quotes a few other Senate veterans saying something like that. I suspect McCain's become a little sensitive on the topic since as it's a valid point. (In fairness to him, he's quoted in that article at length, and he comes across well, if not as exactly dispelling that central allegation).

McCain acquitted himself well as a POW
by gmat
The rest of his time in service, both before and after his captivity, he was a chronic fuck-up who got away with it for the obvious reason.
God Bless You All . . .
by run75441

My answer to a colonel talking about his duty commanding a battalion or a regiment and how it was so much more important than flying a plane:

tom:

Most of us that served our 3 - 4 years as enlisted and got the hell out as Sergeant E-5s or? would smile to watch you guys square off on each other. Who was it? One of Patton's soldiers who said:

"His guts and our blood."

Who are you, Clark, and McCain kidding? So you walked around the field and confirmed body count. Most of us had no choice, so we did the dirty work. We couldn't escape.

God bless you all. Obama has to be smiling too as you guys go to town on each other. Bigger things to argue about, like the economy, like energy, like jobs, like education, etc.

Leave the war stories right where they need to be . . . in the past when we were all gods and invulnerable.

and an answer from another vet ;

Amen tho I felt neither god-like nor invulnerable. I was scared shitless most of the time, at least for a while, and then was mostly numb. I blessed the fast movers when they got our asses out of a jam and damned them when I knew they'd be going back to white sheets and porcelein while I "lived" in the mud and the bugs and the stink. We did have some good officers tho, guys who lived down and dirty with us, who didn't just walk "around the field and confirmed body count". If I had my druthers about the military experience I'd want to see in a president, it would be to have one of those officers or one of our NCOs, men who lived it with us at our level, in the Oval Office. Whether or not by itself that's sufficient qualification to be president is another thing entirely. Yet, if someone is to give the order for my children or my grandchildren to go into harm's way, I'd rather it be from a person who has personally looked into the eyes of scared teenagers and ordered them to do this or that or go here or there knowing full well that the chances of them going home in a body bag were high. PlSgt

Bell, this entire facade is a crock of shit.

I Would Call It Fact
by TheBell

Hi, theNairobiTrio. I'm glad you found the point of my post interesting. From my perspective, without the narrative that comes first, it emerges as not even a truism, left alone the truth, but simply as a matter of opinion. I like to back up my conclusions, documenting all my thinking. I do appreciate this makes for very long posts and I appreciate you sitting through this one.

I understand the complexity of reasons why some in the Islamic world (and elsewhere) view the U.S. with hatred. I also understand the role poverty and a sense of helplessness allows fringe thinkers to turn otherwise peaceable young men and women into diehard believers and suicide bombers.

When September 11 occurred and all Americans were forced to face the fact that the U.S. was not invulnerable, that we were a part of the world and could not ignore the problems of other nations separated from us across a gulf of miles and cultural norms, I hoped we might grow up enough to start participating more as the strong peer among equals rather than self-serving masters. That hope was quashed by the limited minds of the Administration in charge.

However, I was not writing about any epihanies of my own but rather those of a young John McCain, for whom the simple existence of the hatred was quite revelation enough without delving any further into the nuances of understanding why it might exist. Indeed, such understanding could have led to a deeper perception of the issue on his part than the simple fear and returned hated I believe McCain feels today.

Whether we helped create them or not, people who hate and do terrible things do exist in the world; this is just fact. I appreciate and agree with your point that the best way to eliminate terrorism and thus be safe from it would be to understand its origins and that this requires a honest and hard look at our own limitations. I hoped I was illustrating how even those we admire can fall short in their worldviews, sometimes as a result of the very things for which they haved earned our admiration.

Thanks for your reply and insights.

This Qualifies for a Response
by TheBell

Hi, tartuffe. I would argue, as I think I did in my top post, that he still did not go far enough. Not only does the kind of physical and (more importantly) psychological trauma that McCain suffered not especially qualify him to be President but it might be dangerously disabling enough to disqualify him from being President.

There! I think my central thesis remains intact, not to dismiss your objection as "irrelevant" 'r anything. ;)

For the record, I agree with your response to LaurieAnnM that Clark's remarks are simple facts and viewing them as an attack on McCain's military record anything from over-reaction to outright prevarication. My own "objection" to them is only to the extent that I wanted to present a twist to the conventional thinking, which I explained above.

Thanks for your reply.

What Post?
by TheBell
Hi, zuko. Plus, the terrorists will use it to learn how to resist our sarcasm during interrogations. ;) Thanks for your reply and kind words.
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