there is nothing more inherently logical in believing that the universe just always was, or that it randomly sprang into being out of nothing, than in positing the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient Creator. I choose the latter.

C. S. Lweis nailed it--even if it is false--and I don't believe that to be the case--Theism (especially Christianity) provides a larger, more optimistic, and numinous vision of the cosmos than the sere, clank vision of the God-deniers.

Argument from wishful thinking.

NEXT!

Strawman argument.

Maybe some folks just aren't buying what you're selling. It ain't gotta be one or the other. You can be quite happy and just happen to realize that Christianity is nothing more than base superstition in a silk robe.

Lumpy_the_Great:

Argument from wishful thinking.

NEXT!

Is it wishful thinking or is it the POV of the many minds on this earth that can still experience the wonder of the beauty which surrounds us. What does the cosmos gain by being beautiful? Maybe from those who can see more than can be measured.

Theism (especially Christianity) provides a larger, more optimistic, and numinous vision of the cosmos than the sere, clank vision of the God-deniers.

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I'm always amused when people make those claims and then add the little footnote of "especially MY religion'.

Do explain to me why Christianity is 'especially' more optimistic or numinous than Hinduism or Islam or Buddhism....

I don't need the Bible or God to experience the wonder and awe at the world around me. I have already seen it so many times.

Good luck Nano, stop trying to pigeon hole me, please.

I agree with konark...they paint this picture of dour, joyless 'god-deniers' that I can't help but find funny, and in doing so spoil the picture entirely. To say more would go off on another rant, and I think I've done enough of that today.

...than 'There is nothing more inherently logical in believing that the universe just always was, or that it randomly sprang into being out of nothing, than in positing the existence of an Elves, leprechauns and pixies"?

If you're going to invoke a supernatural entity to explain the existence of the universe, any and all supernatural entities suffice, and all offer equal explantory power (i.e., none).

JGC:

...than 'There is nothing more inherently logical in believing that the universe just always was, or that it randomly sprang into being out of nothing, than in positing the existence of an Elves, leprechauns and pixies"?

If you're going to invoke a supernatural entity to explain the existence of the universe, any and all supernatural entities suffice, and all offer equal explantory power (i.e., none).

Thank you for your opinion. That's one of many.

Yes, because there really are only two kinds of people in the world. There are Christians and God-deniers, no others!

And frankly, I see nothing optimistic about the Christian worldview at all. A world tainted with evil that we only inhabit that we might suffer for the sins of two humans in a Hebrew fairy tale? And besides, the Bible clearly states that love of this amazing universe we live in equates to enmity against God. Yeah, I'm feeling the optimism here. :-)

We suffer for our personal sins......and yes putting creation above the creator is a enmity against God.

TruettCollins:

We suffer for our personal sins......and yes putting creation above the creator is a enmity against God.

And it would seem, we suffer for the sins of our ancestors even though that violates the "rules", etc... as I've said many times, lovely system but no thanks.

Bryheinnen:

C. S. Lweis nailed it--even if it is false--and I don't believe that to be the case--Theism (especially Christianity) provides a larger, more optimistic, and numinous vision of the cosmos than the sere, clank vision of the God-deniers.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. "-----Geo. Bernard Shaw

--Theism (especially Christianity) provides a larger, more optimistic, and numinous vision of the cosmos than the sere, clank vision of the God-deniers.--

Bull*shit*. This is the most pernicious lie of religion (all religions, not just Xianity). A cursory reading/viewing of, say, Carl Sagan's COSMOS or Stephen Hawking's BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME, will reveal that the study of the world and the universe, as they truly are, is a pursuit full of excitement, wonder, awe, beauty, and fulfillment. Religion's musty, fusty views of a world of sin, decay, transgression, guilt, and *human sacrifice* pale next to the fact that we are, quite literally, made of star stuff.

Suck it, religion!

But do you really need to cut and paste the entirety of the previous post to append your one-line non-sequitors?