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The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by The Chemist

I haven't been a believer since my mid 20s and still the Catholic-kid-in-me's blood boils when thinking about non-Catholics participating in Eucharist. If you didn't participate in the resquisite amount of Catechism in order to understand its meaning, then you haven't earned the right. If you haven't participated in the sacrament of Confession (something I know ALL Protestants would find harrowing, at best), then you haven't earned the right to take Communion. Its a process, and you don't get to skip parts.

I equate it to going to a Boy Scout (another childhood pastime) meeting and, in order to feel like you belong, telling everyone you're an Eagle Scout. No, you aren't! And those of us who did the volumes of work to become an Eagle Scout don't appreciate you taking it so lightly, even if I'm not into scouting anymore. You don't go around claiming to be something you aren't - and if you take Eucharist in a Catholic Church you are telling everyone present that you are a Catholic who's done the work. You are lying even though you haven't said a word.

Maybe something like impersonating a police officer or a Army vet would be better corollaries, but since at least one of those is a crime, maybe they don't apply as well? How about practicing law even though you haven't passed the bar?

There is no Protestant equivalent of the Sacrament of Eucharist (and I've spent some time in various Protestant denominations)! Or Confession, for that matter. It doesn't make Catholics "better". It just means that if you believe that you can confess your sins silently, or in private, and have the judgement to issue penance on yourself (how would our justice system work if this was true) and you think that's all you need to do in order to have a clean slate, I'm sorry, but you can't take communion in a Catholic church!

Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by jazzguitarman

You don't go around claiming to be something you aren't.

HA HA HA, that is one of the funnies lines I have ever seen when Catholics are also mentioned.

Is there any group of people more phoney than American Catholics, especially all the Lib \ Dem ones?

How many Catholic use birth control? Have abortions? Sex before marriage, etc.... Also many vote to support the so called culture of death the RCC is so afraid of.

But I agree with your overall view here. If one wishes to belong to a group and participate in their rituals \ traditions they should follow the 'required' protocals. They should also believe in the core values of said group.

Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly ang
by The Chemist

"Is there any group of people more phoney than American Catholics, especially all the Lib \ Dem ones?"

Which is the beginning of the reason why I'm and Ex, Catholic AND Christian..

Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by PerryA
One of the reasons I'm no longer a practicing Catholic. I'm down with artificial conception; I don't have the right tell someone she can't have an abortion; and I like to eat meat seven days a week. Of course the main reason I left is that I have a problem with organized religion in general--I just can't accept someone telling me how I should think or act, based solely on their interpretation of stories written 2,000 to 4,000 years ago, translated who knows how many times,
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by pthalomarie
You seemed to have retained the ugliest part of organized religion (snobbery and elitism) and done away with the best parts (faith, compassion, and modesty).
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by NightSwimmer
The Chemist:

There is no Protestant equivalent of the Sacrament of Eucharist (and I've spent some time in various Protestant denominations)! Or Confession, for that matter. It doesn't make Catholics "better". It just means that if you believe that you can confess your sins silently, or in private, and have the judgement to issue penance on yourself (how would our justice system work if this was true) and you think that's all you need to do in order to have a clean slate, I'm sorry, but you can't take communion in a Catholic church!

Oh yes. Catholics are better. Just ask one...

Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by alephnot
If it is all about preparation (spiritual and intellectual) and not exclusion, would an Orthodox Christian taking communion at a Catholic service be OK? The dogma concerning the Eucharist is the same, and an Orthodox must fast and confess before communion. So, according to you, you should allow it, but somehow I doubt it...
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly ang
by ms.anthropia
You really need to reflect on how Catholicism so poisoned your mind with its elitist, exclusivist attitude that even after rejecting the faith it still has you gnashing your teeth over some trivial point of procedure.
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly ang
by Shemhazai
Alephnot, Actually, Catholics allow most Orthodox to take communion and vice versa. I don't remember the exact reasoning but it basicallya boils down to "we both believe and do certain things the same, as opposed to the Protestants with their grape kool-aid."
for boomers you two are exceptions
by jazzguitarman
I don't know your age group but for the baby boomers most just pretend to go with the flow (i.e. they are phonies). Hopefully the younger generation will have the guts to tell their parents they are NOT Catholic (or any religion) and accept that fact that everyone is an agnostic. Some just are willing to admit it and other are just too afraid to do so.
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly ang
by athene399

And this attitude is one of the MANY things about organized religion -- in particular my own -- that makes my blood boil.

Dear 'Chemist',

You sound like a spoiled child who throws a tantrum because another child gets a popsicle on the playground when s/he (and his/her little group of pre-approved 'friends') doesn't. If you want to keep the quality of your argument in the playground, or, to use your own analogy, in the Boy Scout camp, that's your business, but I think many Christians (of whatever stamp) would take offense at this childishness when it comes to other members of the faith. (As an aside, in the Gospels, Jesus recommends being 'child-like', not 'childish', if you remember.)



First, I'd like to point out that you are factually incorrect when you say that "There is no Protestant equivalent to the Sacrament of the Eucharist". Now, as you probably do know, Roman Catholics are not the only Christians who administer Communion. The many branches of the Orthodox church, for example, shares in that liturgical rite. Note that, in addition, the Episcopal/Anglican Church also administers the sacraments of Baptism, Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Ordination, and Last Rites. I believe, as a lapsed Catholic, you would probably have been taught in your catechism lessons to consider these invalid sacraments since the RCC does not recognize apostolic succession in the case of the Anglican Church, but that's an argument for another day. I suppose, however, that we can agree that the Anglican Church is Protestant, and that it considers itself to administer communion. I speak only of this denomination because as a member I know it best.

Now, I'd like to share an anecdote. Three months ago my grandmother, a faithful Catholic and devoted wife and mother, passed away after a long battle with cancer. My father was with her when she died, praying the rosary by her side, and when he noticed she had passed he continued to the end of the rosary because he knew that's what she would have wanted. My father and mother are both committed Christians, and though raised Roman Catholic, turned to the Episcopal Church precisely because of the narrow-minded childishness displayed above.

A week later, at my grandmother's funeral, in the church where my father had been baptized and had served as an altar boy for years when he was growing up, the priest made a point of denying communion to anyone who was not a practicing Roman Catholic. After this little speech, my father, who has been a practicing and committed Christian longer than that priest had been, and had been praying with his mother when she died, did not receive communion at her funeral -- and the pain on his face during the 'sacrament' was so palpable I think God would have been horribly disappointed in the failings of the very human institution that is the Church.

I share this, not because I agree with what Ms.Quinn wrote (although I would never presume to judge what she did -- that is for her and for God, not for other people to tear apart and analyse), but because I want to show how damaging attitudes like this one can be. 'Chemist', whoever you are, I too went to Catholic school, I too took as many years of catechism and apologetics as you did (if not more). I am still a practicing Christian (I practice in the Anglican Church, but quite frankly I don't see what difference it makes). As a result we could argue this until the cows come home. But, if you really had the training you claim to have had then you also had to read the New Testament, and I'm afraid ideas like the ones you expressed above miss the boat on some of the central messages Jesus expresses in the Gospel accounts. What does he have to say about the Scribes and the Pharisees? Why does he fundamentally come into conflict with them? And with whom does he choose to associate? How many years of catechism lessons had Peter (who's, by the way, always getting it wrong)? And this nonsense about "only the 12" being "historically" present at the Last Supper -- in the Greek of the Gospels it's 'the disciples' who are present, and this term refers, not only to the 12, but to various people who followed Christ (including, big shocker here, women! [gasp! moan!])

Whatever problems may be unique to the Anglican Church (trust me, every church has its problems), I'm comforted and proud that in every Episcopal/Anglican church I've attended the priest has made a point of saying before communion "this is God's table, not mine" and has invited all guests to share in this part of the liturgy. I also stand by my decision to go and take communion at my grandmother's funeral despite the fact that my father would not, and though I have never considered myself a Roman Catholic. I did this precisely because it is God's gift, not the gift of the priest who dispenses it, and because I believe it is an individual's decision to make. Ms. Quinn made a decision to receive communion, and then to write publicly about that decision. While it should have been obvious that she would have to deal with the commensurate public outcry, the ramifications of her _action_ are known only to herself. And in the end I doubt very seriously that they could be anything but good.

To close this rant (for the length of which I apologize), dear 'Chemist' please remember that people and relationships are complex -- and what could be more complex than a person's relationship with his/her religion and with God? Let God, if he's really out there, be concerned about his own relationships. And, if issues like who does and does not receive communion bother you this much, perhaps you should be there on Sunday receiving it yourself. Otherwise, I find it very difficult to understand why you think you have the right to pronounce on everybody else who is at the altar rail.


The early church
by sharkness
As the grandson of a Baptist historian and pastor, I find your attitude exactly expressing the reasons we had the Reformation in the first place. Using your logic, how would any devout non-believer ever come to the early church? Strip away the dogma and years of control over education, and one must admit that early receivers of communion were not following a creed invented in the fourth century CE.
Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly ang
by Rianax

I tip my hat to you.

Whatever anyone's personal or theological problems with the Catholic faith, it is common human decency to respect the traditions and tenements of other peoples' faiths, even if you disagree with them.

The Eucharist is a highly sacred sacrament for Catholics, knowingly taking it and being /smug/ about it is rude, disrespectful, and a mockery to faithful of the Church.

Would Ms. Quinn take wine to a mosque? Or refuse to remove her shoes before entering? Or show up to prayers in a a t-shirt and shorts and be so 'proud' of her daring do?


If Ms. Quinn is all about breaking down exclusionary religious practices, how about letting her son have a Bar Mitzvah when he hits 13? What does it matter he isn't Jewish, hasn't weeks studying the Torah, or done anything but corrupted a centuries old coming of age ritual as an excuse to throw a lavish birthday party?*

You might not like how a neighbor decorates their home and think their china angel collection is tacky, but you do not track mud in, rearrange the furniture, and act like a bad guest.

It isn't a matter of ideology, hypocrisy, or theology-- it is a matter of common human courtesy. Something Ms. Quinn and many Slate members are lacking in.

* if you don't believe me about the Bar Mitzvah look at the link below

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Re: The only thing that will make this ex-Catholic truly angry
by justcurious

"How many Catholic use birth control? Have abortions? Sex before marriage, etc.... Also many vote to support the so called culture of death the RCC is so afraid of."

How many people of ANY faith do the above aganist the tenants of their faith/ethics/philosphy? Many people who do not understand the Catholic faith fail to realize that we do not lose free will when we adopt the faith. The RCC is bound to inform/teach/instruct its followers, however we CAN choose to listen or not to. And if we choose not to (i.e breaking a commandment or violate Church law), we can either ask forgiveness or choose not to! Bottom line, we will all have to answer for our actions or lack thereof when we meet our maker.

By receiving communion, Sally Quinn, did not harm herself or God. However, using the experience to express whatever it is she needs to say about religion/faith obviously insults many and gets everyone agitated or angry. Which may be the very reason she uses it in her column

I try my best to practice my faith (Roman Catholic) although I do have my problems/issues with the church. But I especially try very hard not to judge others, which quite honesly can be difficult.

So, maybe Sally Quinn took communion out of respect for her friend Tim Russert. From a Catholic point of view, maybe not the best reason, but it is not the worst, and I for one will not judge her on this. If you truly believe that the presence of God is within the communion host, it can only do good things for Ms. Quinn.

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