I am discusted by the comments on this board.

Timeouts are not the reason that kids today are useless. It is a lack of engagement by the parents. Too many kids have no one really raising them.

I use timeouts and taking away privileges with my kids (ages 5 and 3). . I am told repeatedly by other people and the teachers at their preschool that I have the most kind and respectful children. They are amazing kids. My husband and I are big on respect for others and love for family, these are values that we have instilled in in them

I too was disciplined by spanking and yelling. The result? My 3 brothers and I were absolutele monsters, fighting, screaming and kicking at each other any chance we had. It was a horrible cycle of hitting and yelling by the parent and hitting and yelling by the kids. IT DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING.

Abusing and hitting children are just cruel and barbaric tactics. A timeout gives everyone the opportunity to calm down and think things through. Taking things away teaches kids to be good if they want good things.

I thought it was a good article.

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How would you deal with a child in a daycare situation that has not been taught to respect the rules and go to time out quietly? I have kids fighting me biting, kicking and screaming and if we finally get to the time out chair they cry or talk back the whole time. How do you stop that specific behavior that day without touching the child?

That's a tough one because they are not yours. I'm not a teacher and I'm sure a teacher can give better advice. But I would think that time outs at school (At my kid's school they sit in the corner on a chair) and not letting them do the fun projects or activities may be a good start. Also talk to the parents. Ultimately the kids have to be accountable to the parents. If one of my kids does something I don't like at school I make sure that I have a talk with them, even if they were discilpined already at school. My kids know that the buck stops with me, they may get a time out at school but I will take their TV show away that night too. Try sending home a sheet with the kids that talks about the need for them to be involved... Print out the slate article as a jump start to remind them that it is their responsibility to discipline their kids. Finally, I would not put up with repeated abuse in a preschool system where the parents don't care and the directors don't want to help. You can probably find a better school with better families and support elsewhere.

If you ever read a Bible begin with Proverbs 23:13 and 14 and Proverbs 22:15 where God recommends swats. There are others but these are so clear that even a person who has never read them can easily understand them.

Perhaps your kids responded to timeouts, but I have great difficulty as the Father of seven children believing that you never raised you voice to your chidren or did something that could be called hitting or pushing to get their attention.

I worked with a boy who had serious problems and was unteachable. One day he decided to speak up about what his real problem was, and this is pretty much what he said; "My parents never cared enough to spank me. They just left me do whatever I wanted to do with no consequences, and I began to think they hated me or didn't care enough to stop me from doing the wrong things." The amazing thing was that he was in our program which allowed spanking, and he decided to talk just after being administered a spanking. He refused to open up before that.

Spanking has always been and will always be the best way to discipline children. At least that is what God thinks. You should agree with Him if you don't agree with anyone else on this subject.

different children respond to diffrent forms of discipline differently( just like everyone else), while i have no problem spanking my children to impress upon them that i am very serious about whatever has brought about the spanking ( running in the street for example)... most unruly children are the way they are because the lack discipline entirely and/ or do not spend enough time with their families.And some kids are just a big old handful.

As far as God recommending ( what a funny choice of words) spanking, he also " recommends" not eating pork ever or working on Saturday, but everyone is a-ok with disregarding those.

JTA, it worked for you, but the reality is all kids are not made alike. Some are just terrible. So, don't be disgusted with the comments on the board, be happy there are free thinking parents out there who don't follow a bunch of authors who think they have the magic answer to disciplining kids. Kids are all different! Reasoning with kids......come on? Are you kidding? They are looking for the parent to establish boundaries. Talking it out doesn't really work, most of the time. A good spanking will make them think twice.

First of all, apologies for my many typos on the 1st post. I couldn't beleive what I was reading and was trying to post quickly.

Second, re the GOD post. I thought children are supposed to be a gift from god, why on earth would he have us abuse them? Ridiculous post. Plus the bible was written by man anyway.

I don't think anyone is suggesting "reasoning" with your childen, especially young ones. I think the article was saying, if they don't agree to calm down or stand in the corner that you take something away from them. I usually do that first actually (no talking, just taking their stuff), and it is way more effective than when I scream and yell. Sanctions work better than having the kids seeing an adult lose their cool.

JTA:

Timeouts are not the reason that kids today are useless. It is a lack of engagement by the parents. Too many kids have no one really raising them.

You said a mouthful there. Whether you choose to spank or not isn't really the issue. If you are spending the appropriate amount of time with your children and have a loving relationship with them, then you won't have to deal with nearly as much destructive behavior from them. If you oppose spanking simply because you'd rather not bother to intervene in your children's lives, then you're probably in for a world of trouble and heartache -- as are any others that come in contact with your child.

Please tell me you're joking - "Spanking has always been and will always be the best way to discipline children." And God recommends swats?! I know, the old "Spare the rod and spoil the child." Gee, maybe this wasn't supposed to be taken so literally as hitting our children. I've seen way too many parents use this Biblical line to justify abusive behavior.

Spanking is good for very serious infractions, like running into the street. Trouble is, many parents use it for the smallest of infractions (and usually in anger), which, like any other discipline method that is overused, makes it useless and leads to anger and resentment in the child.

How sad that you would label a child "unteachable," then assume that his real issue is that he wanted to be spanked. What he wanted was for his parents to set limits and follow through with consequences - whether that was spanking or any other method of discipline - so he would feel safe and know the limits of his behavior.

JTA, you are absolutely right!

My father very rarely spanked my four siblings and me when we were small, but one day, when my older brother was about eight and my youngest brother was still in diapers, he instituted a new punishment for every infraction - timeouts! And if we got into fights, we had to sit in chairs facing each other until we apologized to each other. I STILL remember thinking that I much preferred spankings because they were over with quickly!!!

With my own children - now 21 and 19 - I, too, relied on timeouts and my youngest has ADD so, with him, that was quite a challenge, but one that I have never regretted! And believe me, I did not get any support for my child rearing ideas when he was three, particularly when every parental restriction sparked a lively debate. I was absolutely convinced he was going to be a lawyer! And his logic was air tight! I could not tell him he could not do something, "Just because," until he was six, and then I still had to explain to him that he could not do it because it bothered me, and I was very good to him and deserved his cooperation, even if my restrictions made no sense! But how wonderful it was when he agreed with me!!!

By the time he started school, I made it a practice not to tell his teachers that he had ADD at the start of the school year and only told them later if I needed their help. And they were always surprised, but supportive once I disclosed. I also never put him on drugs to control his ADD. I always kept it available as an option, but with every new rough patch, we simply stepped back and figured out how to manage it. (Funny, though, how all of his best friends were kids with ADD, too! They always found each other and still do.)

Today he is a straight A student in a very demanding curriculum at college, and the only real concessions we had to make to get him through school were (1) teaching him to recognize the consequences of his actions, (2) teaching him when he can and when he cannot break the rules, (3) teaching him that he has to get a seat at the front of the classroom if he finds he is too distracted to pay attention in class, and (4) teaching him to be SUPER organized. (If he does not put his things away in their proper place, he can literally not find them. He will walk right by them again and again, but never see them for all of his other distractions.)

And as a teacher, I certainly never relied on corporal punishment, and I had to deal with some pretty rough children. But it was always a joy to see them come around, and they always came around. But it was equally heart breaking to see them transform back into little monsters with their parents. We could work with some of the parents to make things better for everyone, but there is nothing you can do when parents are determined to see their children as monsters and they either bully them or neglect them.

God bless you!!! Your post made my day!

Agreed. I was disciplined by corporal punishment as a child. My father frequently took it too far. I have no relationship with my mother who I can't forgive for not standing up for her children. I have sufferd from severe depression and anxiety since I was 12, I'm now 27 and still on medication which I likely will be for the rest of my life. Oh and not to mention I am completely incapable of forming solid relationships with men because I don't trust them.

I have a lovely 8 year old who is never punished physically. She is sweet kind and respectful. We have a great relationship. I refuse to parent by fear. She is not a perfect child - no child is. It is you're job as a parent to teach them the right way to behave. All hitting them does is show them that pysical violence is an acceptable solution.

If you feel corporal punishment is ok then think about this - would it be okay if a figure of authority in your life hit you? Is it appropriate for a police officer to hit you after pulling you over for speeding? Didn't think so.

Every day care should provide training in positive discipline methods to their staff. While it's not easy to give you advice in a general way about the situation you're describing, you can find the answers yourself at a site like positivediscipline.com. But I must say that if you have that kind of chaos going on in your program, there are either too few staff members for the number of children, or something else has gone wrong that must be addressed by the director. That situation is unacceptable and will lead to trouble that could cost you your job, or the day care program its license, or both.

Maybe if you ever watched shepherds in the Middle East, you'd know that.

I don't buy your story, but even if it were true, there are other alternatives besides spanking, to discipline a child, and even you cannot say that spanking is the only way to teach children good behavior, and show that you care about them.

thank you for this ray of sunlight today.

Your daughter is lucky indeed. I can imagine it's hard for you with all that's going on, but please know I find your story inspiring, and your point at the end is so true. I wish you the best.