Ok. I never thought I would feel so compelled to comment on something like this...

So, I used to read Dear Abby from time to time, and I've seen a few of these "Prudie's" as well. Once or twice over the years, I do remember wondering if ol' Abby would have agreed with something-or-another that Prudie had said, but it was always a fleeting thought; never before have I read anythng that I would consider really bad advice.

Until now, of course.

I do realize there may be more to the letter than was available to read in the article; maybe there's more information that Prudie is privy to.

But from what I've read, I feel compelled to offer the poor woman MY opinion on the matter, such as it is.

I am only 29 years old, but I have had an affair with a married woman. I won't go into the details, but I was 19 at the time. It lasted six years. My only point here is that I have seen some of the lies and guilt that are unavoidable by-products of an affair; I didn't actually know her husband, but I have said to others before that I can't imagine what it would have been like if I did. Would I have still been able to do it if he were my friend?

I don't honestly know, but it would have been difficult. I was 19 and I thought I was in love. (And I may have been, for who can say? Too many people try and quantify what would be 'true' or not, because love and lust do funny things to the brain.) But what if her husband was my close friend? My best friend? I saw some of what she went through in that time, and I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had interact with (and lie to) him as well.

After the lessons I learned from that relationship, I decided that if a friend ever did me wrong because of a woman - I would try and remember to go a little easy on them.

That being said, my main argument here is that IF the woman is telling the truth, and if she's a close friend (you've know her almost 25 years, you say, yes?), then she's been lying to you for 25 years - maybe at the husbands insistence. Now that he's gone, it might seem to her that it's okay to finally tell you the truth that she's been hiding for so long.

Maybe she just felt that guilty. Prudie suggests she needs attention, but I argue that if she considers you a good friend, maybe her need for your approval has a place. No can hurt you like someone you care about, and her concern for your opinion on the matter seems to be a genuine and completely normal reaction for such a tender situation.

The second letter included; I have written many a confessional that I regretted sending the moment I sent it - that's the problem with writing, it's too easy to say things you wouldn't say in person.

I don't know what Prudie thinks the woman should have done. Obviosuly "not have the affair", but beyond that should she have kept her mouth shut about it forever? I mean, it doesn't say how long she waited to come clean; I'd say she should wait at least six months or so... but then again, if you're sick of lying to a friend about something for so long, how cold a decision does that seem to postpone it "just a little while longer"? I'm not saying I agree, but I do understand.

But how long do you have to wait to admit to a friend that you've been lying to them? It's probably okay on your death bed, maybe Prudie would say that it would be okay if the woman waited till then.

I'll try to be a little more concise. Only you know how good a friend this woman is; only you know if she is worth having in your life. Is she a flyspeck to be swatted away? If she was, I don't think you would have sent a letter asking for advice about her.

What's wrong with talking to the woman? Is she your friend or not? If she deserves such cold treatment, based on the relationship you have built over the years, then fine - give it to her. But it seems to me she deserves for you to tell her exactly how she's making you feel.

Communication is awesome, no matter the medium, and probably more important than anything else in the world. I say that to snub it, for any reason (other than that it's been exhausted to the point of redundancy) is inexcusable.

Even if your relationship with the woman ceases; if she makes you uncomfortable, or for whatever you reasons you become distant, that is still no reason to turn-out-all-the-lights-and-pr­etend-you're-not-home.

You've known her long enough to know if she deserves to be your friend or not, and if she does - even if you can't bear to be it anymore - then she at least deserves one last letter from you, so that she understands what she has done, and why you feel the way you do.

"maliciously inflict pain on the bereaved..." "burn her letters..." Rubbish. She may have lacked some tact in how and when she delivered the news, but she probably isn't trying to hurt you out of malicious intent. And burning her letters amounts to a childish response from someone who doesn't know how to deal with grown-up situations.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say, I'm sure it's quite enough, thank you.

I am hoping your letter is a fake, based on the plot line of a porn movie about the pizza delivery guy and the hot housewife. Here are your qualifications to offer advice:

"I am only 29 years old, but I have had an affair with a married woman. I won't go into the details, but I was 19 at the time. It lasted six years. My only point here is that I have seen some of the lies and guilt that are unavoidable by-products of an affair;"

It's good that you left out the details. Most of us have seen that movie.

Actually, #@%^head, I meant to say that our relationship - not the affair - lasted six years - she divorced her husband before the first year was over. I always feel compelled to point out that we were together for so long afterwards so that people know it wasn't a frivolous fling; that's just an old defensive habit. But hey - good job anyway on doing your best to insult somebody for no good reason.

I never claimed I had a PhD in psycholgy or anything. But now that you mention it, if you want some kind of reference... I do have a friend named Eric Uhlmann who has received his PhD in psychology from Yale. I hadn't seen him in years until several months ago. He thinks I'm a freakin genius on the subject, and told me several times that I would have fit in well there at Yale. So, according to someone who knows a lot about people, I know a lot about people, and I'm smarter than the average bear. So @*%! off.

(Kidding! Just Kidding. I am smiling as I write this, just so you know. I'm joking around even when I'm being serious. But really, this guy Eric, he practically kisses my ass, although admittedly I'm pretty sure he has a horrible self-esteem problem. Is that ironic, or just funny? I can never quite tell.)

(And, off the record - it WAS kind of a funny pizza/porn analogy, I GUESS, but still - it's a pet peeve of mine when people try to argue by pointing out your lack of experience on the subject rather than listening and trying to disprove your actual arguments. If you want to argue, then fine - argue... but don't act condescending only because you have nothing else clever to say.)

I shouldn't have bothered mentioning my small piece of affair history - I was only trying to point out that guilt is a funny thing. And I HAVE seen it in this type of medium whether you respect my opinion or not, and had to deal with it, and help someone through it. Even long after, it messes with your head to do something that you could've sworn you'd never do, believe it. Whether you think I deserve to be pointing that out to you or not, it's just common sense.

Everyone's accusing some woman they never met and know nothing about of being crazy and a liar. Nobody in their right mind would lie about something like this, it's true - which is why, all other things being equal, it's much more likely she's TELLING THE TRUTH.

The woman's not asking for anything, supposedly, except her friend's forgiveness, unless, like I said earlier, there's more to the story then we know. My main point is that if someone's your friend, then they're your friend, and it's never wrong to talk to someone. "Still Hurting" obviously still feels the need for some kind of closure here, and it sounds like she otherwise enjoys this woman in her life. We don't know what they've been through together.

It's like in the movies, when someone finds out they've been lied to, and they say something ridiculous like "Oh my god, that means everything else about us is a lie, too!" That's not what it means at all. Yes, it's hard to trust someone who has lied, but I hardly think that she runs the risk of her friend repeating her offense.

I just don't understand why everyone assumes the woman is a liar. Men cheat. They do it all the time, really! And if he did, it would make perfect sense that he would beg the woman to keep quiet about it, using sweet promises and born-again devotion. And OF COURSE he'd tell the wife that the woman was "obviously needy and confused" - oh my god, that's CLASSIC! Are you kidding me?!

Anyway, the guy's dead now, so you can't be too hard on him anyway. It may be hard, but the wife shouldn't let it ruin what she cherishes about her husband's memory. The truth hurts, yes, but personally I'd like to think I'd have the wisdom to thank someone in the end for telling me how things really are. I would consider them a good friend, because that takes a lot of biz-alls.

Ok, so here's my final advice, argue with this: Confront your friend, face to face, and listen to the 'facts'. If you determine her to be a liar, slap her in the face, call her a liar, and disown her as previously advised. If, on the other hand, she proves herself to be a true friend by convincing you that yes, you DO have a booger hanging from your nose.... well, then, slap her in the face even HARDER and say,"How DARE you!" Then sit down and continue knitting, and ask after her grandchildren. Then inquire as to why she looks so flushed, and ask her if she'd like some lemonade.

Now that's old-school class.

Let me guess the woman was much older than you and the husband was an alcoholic?

That would be very typical.

Two things.

1) You'd do well to learn to be more concise and to get to the point. People tend to zone out after a long rambling dissertation, which can usually be summed up with a few sentences. Not trying to be critical, but it would help make your point better.

2) About your written confessions: A very popular technique of the 1980's was to write the long, rambling confession and/or criticism. Let it sit till morning, or perhaps a few days later. Read it again, and destroy it. It can be cathatic, and hopefully keep you from sticking your foot in your mouth.

Another problem with written confessions, they can be redistributed, over and over, and possibly used against you in court.

It seems that you've never been properly and thoroughly insulted before either. Incogneato offers a kindly and succint critique of what went wrong with your rather lengthy post. For the most part, I agree with that.

However, your comment about "class" was interesting. If we were all french, maybe a spouse's affair with your friend might be less objectionable. Playing golf with someone who is sleeping with your wife would be classy. In the US, however, someone who sleeps with your spouse is not your friend. It's a betrayal. Not as much a betrayal as the spouse's betrayal but still a significant betrayal. We expect loyalty from people we call friends.

Ok, I like these comments.

First of all, I can't help rambling, it's what I do. But Incogneato is right.

As far as the class thing, remember we're speaking of something that happend 25 YEARS ago, and also, if the woman is to be believed, it happened before she even knew the guy was married.

I can't believe I've put so much time into all of this.

SageLee:

I can't believe I've put so much time into all of this.

Now you are catching on. Baring one's soul can be cathartic; but the advice about writing it all out, letting it rest, and then re-reading and probably editing it before posting is always good.

There are a lot of things in life that a person should keep to themselves and an affair with someone else's spouse, let alone a friend's husband, is one of them.

Ok. If you can't tell, I just like to write, and I have this OCD thing with details. There's a million variables to every situation, and I don't really see very many things as black and white. My answer to everything is "It depends."

So you've been warned - this will be long, and respond at your peril; you might just find another three pages when you come back and check again. And I might even include soul-baring details! MHUAHAHAHA...

Because really, here, why do I care? No one's really argued any of my specific points other than to damn me for revealing my own sins and to tell me I talk to much (which believe me, I know, I know; I can't help but think every little thing I have to say could be the important part. I don't edit very well, now matter how long I let it sit.)

We don't know each other and I could care less about how people view the details of my life, or if I bore you, or make you "ashamed enough for both of us" if you're really that ridiculously high-and mighty. None of you have to read any of this if you don't want to, and if you choose to do so, I must be saying SOMETHING entertaining, or at least writing it well, which is good enough for me.

Like I said, I enjoy writing, and I'm probably doing this as much as to hear myself talk as anything else, I'll be the first to admit it. It would be nice to think that one person might enjoy reading it all, or might think about things a little differently because of something I've said, but... eh, what can I do? And maybe I'll win the argument simply by not shutting up, you ever think of that? Eh? EH!?

So zone out, or stop reading, or declaim me to hell for all I care. I really didn't expect everyone to be so judgemental, but whatever, I'm not all that bothered by it. I don't look down on the woman (I had an affair with) for what she's done, and neither should you. She's been through enough, believe me; no one can punish us like we can punish ourselves. Even God would be hard pressed, sometimes I wonder if that's his trick - letting us punish ourselves, at least those of us who would try to be good people. Some of us are very good at it.

All of life, good and bad, makes us what we are, and we have no choice but to learn from our mistakes. And I have. I could never be a cheater OR cheatee again, no matter how strong the temptation, becasue of what I have been through.

But that's also why I feel it's so messed up for someone not to know the truth. She would get into the car with me, and say something like, "I told him that I'm working late." Or whatever, and I'd just think to myself, "God, he's just sitting there at home, thinking she's at work loving him dearly, and meanwhile I'll be plowing her." Put yourself in his shoes. If I were him, I would want to know.

(I never answered "Clarinda"; yes, she was older than me, and he was kind of a redneck douchebag, so yes, he probably was an alcoholic. But just because it's typical doesn't mean we're not both real people who have had our lives profoundly changed because of it. She deserved better, and she got it: Four years now since we broke up, and she is married again to a great guy, and is expecting her first child. She told her new husband about me, and he's glad that she was honest with him about her past. We obviously don't see each other anymore, and we don't talk extensively anymore, just Happy Birthday's and such. I'd like to think that she's better off now, because of me. So I can't feel too bad. I realize that these are all details that nobody cares about, but that's what you get fer talkin' back!)

Her ex, incidentally, has a new beau as well, if anyone were to care about him. Hopefully he's learned something as well, since there's really nothing else for him to do. But no one ever told him the truth. You will note that I have no plans to ever send him a letter telling him the truth, but if I knew the guy, if I had an ounce of respect for him, I would feel much worse about letting him live in his delusional version of his life.

Which is why I just can't agree with your last point, Tonto, if you're even still reading. If, god forbid, I ever slept with a friend's significant other, I'd be a pretty shitty friend. And it would be hard to own up to that fact. But I'd be an even shittier friend if I never told them about it. If they (their lover) did it once, maybe they'd do it again; did you ever consider that he might have cheated with other woman? Maybe she'd been lying to herself about her marriage the whole time. And if that's the way she'd rather look at it, then fine, but whose decision is that to make?

As it turned out, it seems the couple had a great life together, maybe only because the truth didn't come out. But then again, if it was that good other than this one affair, than it would have probably survived and maybe even been stronger if it had come out back then.

Think about it like this then: what if you were just an observer? What if you had a friend, and you happened to see their spouse cheating on them? Let's say you don't even really know the spouse that well, but you've known your friend for many years before they were married and considered them a really good friend. Would you tell? Under those circumstances, I'm sure a lot of answers would change to "yes".

Ok, what if you didn't tell, but then you saw her cheating again with ANOTHER guy six months later? And then AGAIN another year down the road. Would you tell your "good" friend now that his wife's a hussy? If not, shame on you. I think most people would say yes, here. But you see now, the point: everyone has their own line that they'll draw based on personal relationships and experiences. Yes, it's very awkward when they're BOTH your friends and YOU'RE the one who cheated. But someone in all that murk is the same important question: does your friend deserve to know the truth, even if that means you won't be their friend anymore?

I'm not saying I don't understand the decision in this specific situation to say, "Oh, after twenty-five years of lying she should have just kept her mouth shut". But you know what? She didn't. Even if she made a bad call with either her timing or the act herself, I just think it's wrong to ostracize her so completely becasue she did what SHE THOUGHT was the right thing to do: tell the truth, finally. I know that they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I've always thought that was a pretty pointless saying. What are you supposed to do, never try and do what you think is the right thing?!

I'm learning that there are people in this world who would rather live in a bubble of false comfort than the real world (most of them, apparently), but I just cannot relate to that attitude. If there is truth that involves me or something important in my life, and I don't know it, I feel that I deserve to know it - even if I can't handle it. And if that's the case, I better learn to handle it, because life has many ugly truths to be dealt with, and that's part of growing up. That's why I say it's "childish" to respond to the woman with "talk to the hand..."

Also, I am vain enough in what I think is the "right" attitude that I would assume my friends would feel the same way (about preferring to know the truth, whatever it may be). I am thinking now of all those scenes from movies where somebody is badly wounded and about to die, and they ask their friend. "Am I going to die?" I'm curious, if you were in that situation - and let's just say that you had just enough medical experience to know for sure that your friend was going to die in a matter of minutes - would you tell him the truth?

At first, I was prepared to record this as the only example of a situation where I wouldn't tell the truth. But after thinking about it a bit, I've realized I would.. If it were a child, I don't think I'd have the heart, but if it were an adult, I'd look them in the eye, and I'd take their hand and I'd say "Yes, you're going to die." There's all sorts of stories about near-death experiences, and how it changes you in profound and unexplainable ways to "know" that you're about to die. As an adult, they have a right to have that last opportunity to reflect on their life, and make peace with it before they go, and that's not really for me to deny them that chance.

Anyway, there I go defending that point before anyone's arguing it. Maybe that's not a good analogy, but I think it's close enough when we're speaking on the theme of "important truths". Whether or not my spouse is or even was faithful is something I would dearly love to know the truth of, no matter how much it hurts, because that's just the way I am. The truth is important to me, and I can't help but feel a llittle morally superior to someone who can't handle living life that way.

(And please, don't bother saying something along the lines of, "You've had an illicit affair, and you say that you feel morally superior?!" I can't change what I've done, but I also can't change how it's changed me. I am a different person than I was ten years ago, and stronger in certain respects becasue of that whole thing. You could offer my heart's desire to me on a silver platter, no strings attached, and my first thoughts would be suspicion as to the unavoidable side-effects of such a gift. Although I'm smart enough to realize that that's probably not the most healthy attitude to have either, somewhere in the middle is probably best.)

So I'm finally running out of hot-air, this is it: Be pissed at your friend for sleeping with your spouse, and forgive them or don't as you see fit. Be pissed at them for telling the truth even, if you feel they shouldn't have done so, but I still think telling the truth is a forgiveable offense. And in the end, if you have to disown a friend, if you've been through enough together but they really just messed up, it costs nothing to be polite and mature about it.

So.. anytime you wanna say uncle, I'll shut up. And you'll even get the last word.

I got to the third paragraph & hit the back button & skip the rest of your posts, if you want to write a fucking novel, get a blog.

There you have it.

SageLee, I too tend to see things in shades of grey. I also respond "It depends" quite a lot. And I do tend to ramble. This can obscure the main point, according to my friends. So I will be succinct: this friend should never have revealed the affair to the widow. Whether they were close friends or casual acquaintances is immaterial. How long the affair did or did not last is irrelevant. Revealing it changed nothing and caused pain to the already-bereaved. The desire to be forgiven is understandable, but selfish. Confession should have been tabled permanently.

I hate to break it to you, but there's a difference between liking to write and witless blithering to no apparent purpose. Please, spare us! I too read up to the third paragraph and quit.

Please please, if you have a point, make it!

Nobody likes a bore. Get back to us when you have something to say and an editor.

Karenellenrose:

this friend should never have revealed the affair to the widow.

I think at least most of us can agree on this. Now that she has, what's the widow to do?

Since she apparently had been a good friend for so long, I personally would say to her something along the lines of, it's water under the bridge. However, I need some time to deal with this and with his death. Please wait until I contact you before you contact me.

That will give her time to think about it, and if she never calls her unwise friend again, it should close the matter entirely.