Go to Ask.com


enter the fray: our reader discussion forum
Search in:
Advanced
View:FlatThreaded
Page 1 of 5 (62 items)   1 2 3 4 5 Next >
Messy Poll!
by MessyONE
+1 Reply
I couldn't resist this week. Just. Could. Not. Resist.

There's been a lot of hot air and hoo hah surrounding the behavior - wait for it - of WOMEN in the last couple of weeks. In fact, a lot seems to be expected of women, but men seem to get excused from a LOT of responsibility.

This has run the gamut, too. A guy gets divorced...and his girlfriend is the slut, because clearly getting only the most pathetic of stiffies at the mere hint of a sight of the outline of a bra strap under a modest twin set means that he is REQUIRED to have not only meaningless sex right that red-hot moment, but to get a divorce on the next business day! Poor darling couldn't help himself, could he?

Then we got to hear about how the mere hanging of a PhD on the wall qualifies a man to treat his wife as if she's nothing more than chattel, meant to serve food and the aforementioned most pathetic of stiffies whenever and wherever he commands, no doubt. I know. I'm harping on this one. It ticks me off in a big way - less because the guy is an utter asshole than because he's trained his poor wife to agree with him.

Now we have an entire long thread from some retrograde flaming sissy insecure dolt (or, in the words of my current movie hero: "treacherous cow headed yeasty cod-piece) about how his long-distance girlfriend can't be trusted to raise her (not his) daughter and entertain her (not his) friends.

As if all we women have to see is a moderately nice basket on a pair of tight jeans that some 20-something guy just took out of the dryer and put on and we'll naturally have no choice but to strip and drop on the spot.

Oy, I HAD to come up with a poll! You can see that, right? (...she said, eyelid twitching madly...)

Here we go, each question ends, "...at 20? at 30? at 40? at 50?

1. Just how are women SUPPOSED to "behave" exactly? This is with regards to men in general - boyfriends, spouses, affianced, one night stands...etc.

2. How are we supposed to DRESS? Beware guys, this one is just fraught with all sorts of nasty pitfalls for you!

3. Just how far are we supposed to go to keep men happy? What do we give up?

Are those open-ended enough? I can think of a good half dozen posters that won't even be able to respond.....

Let me jump right in
by pbev

At twenty I had a free pass to act as beligerant and ill mannered as I wanted. I was not married and I had no parents to embarrass. I had one night stands who wanted to keep me tied down and I was about freedom.

At thirty-one I was married. I turned myself into what my husband wanted and low and behold, he got bored with me. He wanted me to be one way in front of him family, another way in fromt of his co-workers and of course a porno star in private. If he had spent more time being the father to his son I wanted him to be, I would have been a more devoted ho and less pissed off at his taking me for granted.

At forty I was very happy. Unfortunately I repeated my own mistake (in hindsight now) and became what someone else wanted and wouldn't you guess, they didn't like it. I went from being a sexy, vivacious, living, breathing success story into a dowdy, take care of his world, work the job he approves, wear the clothes he likes nobody.

I know how to dress. I dress age appropriate. I don't show off my assets. I gave up a lot of years making someone else happy. Sure I had some good times but in the end, becoming what they wanted was the death of those relationships.

In the future I'll do shit my own way, thanks.

Hugs for Messy.

Re: Messy Poll!
by mermaid33

Gee, maybe that's been my problem! I wasn't aware that I was "supposed" to "behave", "dress" or "perform" in any particular way at any given age other than what pleases me and causes a minimum of harm to myself or anyone else. I guess I misplaced the owner's manual, which is fine by me 'cause I plan on continuing this philosophy through to the end. Rules are for sissies (except regarding the etiquette of wedding invitations.)

Your poll is actually 12 different questions with several sub-questions, although PhysicsGirl could probably come up with another quantum cubing or whatever to make it 12 x infinity squared plus one questions. Good thing mine have all the same answers; that could take a while otherwise. But I'll try and be specific:

1. I never had a one night stand so I wouldn't know about that. But if I did, I guess he'd get the same treatment as boyfriends, spouses, etc., which is the golden rule. No, not that golden rule, the one that says "Do unto others, etc."

2. Again, not a big fan of rules but I do have to say it's probably less likely one can pull off an outfit from the $5 Clothing Store as time goes by. Feel free to try, however!

3. One should only go as far to make someone happy as pleases one's self; love is "want to", not "have to". I can't think of anything specific I've ever given up to make a man happy but if I did, it must have pleased me to do so at the time.

MessyONE:

I can think of a good half dozen posters that won't even be able to respond.....

Hey, watch where you're hurling that gauntlet, you're gonna put someone's eye out!

Re: Messy Poll!
by dumb_blonde

1. Just how are women SUPPOSED to "behave" exactly?

How ever we want

2. How are we supposed to DRESS?

How ever we want

3. Just how far are we supposed to go to keep men happy?

Just as long as I am happy making him happy.

What do we give up?

Nothing

Re: Messy Poll!
by Looker

Too subjective and too many variables. Is the woman in question motivated by greed, love, fear, pride, lust, etc.?

That's what's great about reaching a point in life where you don't really NEED anything (money, love, attention, or whatever.) You can pretty much just be who you want to be and everyone else can either take it or leave it.

I do have my own core values, though. I figure if it isn't illegal or immoral, and no one gets hurt (including myself), then I pretty much do my own thing.

Re: Messy Poll!
by IncogNeato
Who says you're a dumb blonde? You're 2 for 2 so far this morning!
Re: Let me jump right in
by IncogNeato
pbev:

became what someone else wanted and wouldn't you guess, they didn't like it.

I made that mistake once, in my 20's. Then I went back to the only guy who had never tried to remake me, and we're both very happy. I've never tried to remake him, either, much to the chagrin of many of his family.
Re: Messy Poll!
by magicienne

MessyONE:
1. Just how are women SUPPOSED to "behave" exactly? This is with regards to men in general - boyfriends, spouses, affianced, one night stands...etc. 2. How are we supposed to DRESS? Beware guys, this one is just fraught with all sorts of nasty pitfalls for you! 3. Just how far are we supposed to go to keep men happy? What do we give up? Are those open-ended enough? I can think of a good half dozen posters that won't even be able to respond.....

I don't have too much to say, since I am only 25. But I think when it comes to men I like to be myself, which is why I was always the girl who is their friend but never a girlfriend.

I am actually married to a wonderful guy and one of the only arguements that I can really remember is why he would go out and drink sometimes with his friends but why he never wanted to go drinking with me. He told me that he wasn't always himself when he would go out and he preferred to be home with me and that is because he can be himself and he knew I am not a drinker so he didn't want to make me do something I didn't really want anyway. (That kind of came out wrong and people are going to accuse me of not letting him go out and have fun but that wasn't where I was going with that. It is more that I thought he liked going out to bars and drinking and why he didn't want to do something I thought he liked with me)

As for dressing I don't think it is so much age, as it is size. I am a 34 D, I can't wear most tank tops or low cut things, it can verge on innapropriate and I prefered not to get stared at walking down the street. So due to my size I guess I tend to be more modest. I would also be willing to dress more sexy in the bedroom but my husband can be dense and I think only prefers skin.

Keeping men happy, that is a tricky one. I think I went pretty far out of my own comfort zone to keep him happy. I moved away from my beloved NYC to WI... but I found ways to be happy here. If something will make me uphappy and not just I want pizza and he wants chinese but really truely miserable then I would have to draw the line. Luckily that hasn't happened yet.

Honestly, he makes me happy, which is why I am having such a hard time now that he is away for two months. Not in that he is my everything, I can't do anything without him but I am naturally introverted and so is he so either we keep each other company or motivate each other to do things, like go out and call friends or just walk around the mall. So since he is gone I am practicing baking to keep people at work happy...

Re: Messy Poll!
by MessyONE
I agree that it's fairly wide ranging, but then I've also found that most people do have a set of fairly rigid "rules" for these things.

For example, I recently read an article that claimed to be a "guideline" for what women over 40 should wear. The author claimed that it was crucial that knees be covered at all times, low necklines were forbidden, and that no "form fitting" jeans are acceptable. Since the so-called author is a woman in her early 30s, I found this amusing.

There seems to be an odd, age related taboo, where we're supposed to just shut down sexually, hide our bodies and stay home. Men don't have to do any of these things, of course. The poster whining about how his long-distance girlfriend should "act her age" is classic.

Many people, men and women, seem to find it threatening in some way when anyone over the age that they consider to be "old" (this could be anywhere from 35 to whatever) acts "younger" than they think is "normal". Where does that come from? Why the hell shouldn't I wear the jeans, considering I have a better body than most high school kids?
Now that all the girls have had their say...
by Fitzpatrick

(also just could not resist!)

1. My #1 rule is: don't be boring. Boring people, are. Boring, that is. The corollary is that behaving exactly as you are supposed to is likely to be, too.

Rule #2 is, be honest. If you're telling someone that you want to be with them, act like it. If you don't, then don't act like it.

2. What am I, gay?

3. The distance. Go the distance to make men happy. But first, find a guy that's worth going the distance for and with, and enjoy the ride. (Note: sometimes the way to make a whiny guy happy is to tell him to quit whining and get over himself.)

Look, I walk a bit of a line on this whole subject. Nobody has the right to tell you how to act. But, nobody has to take you as you are, either. So, bend where you can, and where it's worth it to you. Realize that your behavior is your choice, and your responsibility. People who demand conformity to arbitrary standards deserve to be ignored, or confronted, or best of all, mocked.

On that note, and because I couldn't think of a better place to use them, some appropriate George Carlin quotes (may he rest in peace, stuck up on the roof somewhere):

"Women like silent men; they think they're listening."

"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."

"Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it."

Re: Messy Poll!
by kidsgrown

1. You can behave how you want. I treat men with respect because I expect to be treated with respect. I will not put up with being treated as a second-class citizen or piece of property. (Okay, I've been re-married almost 20 years now, so it's been awhile since I was on the dating scene).

2. Dress how you want. I believe more in "body-appropriate" than "age-appropriate". If you have a great body, who cares how old you are? Why should you be penalized because you're over 35? If your boobs sag, cover them up - no one wants to see that - no matter how old/young you are.

3. We give up nothing - we should be gaining something on this one - like a partner! You can't be responsible for someone else's happiness. You can only control your own behaviour and emotions not anyone else's.

Re: Messy Poll!
by Looker

Hey, you go, girl! If ya got it, flaunt it! Now, if someone has a snazzy automobile, they sure as heck like to show it off in car shows and cruising around in it. Why should a body be any different? And if you're over 40/50/60 or whatever and your chassis is still in tip top shape...well, then, that sort of makes you a classic collectable.

Re: Messy Poll!
by dumb_blonde

I've seen 20 year olds that were wearing clothes that they had no business wearing. Age should not mean when you can flaunt or not.

Old Mistresses Apologue
by Fitzpatrick

A classic piece of literature from a wise old fella, on the benefits of age in women:

My dear Friend, June 25. 1745

I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural Inclinations you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you are most likely to find solid Happiness. Your Reasons against entring into it at present, appear to me not well-founded. The circumstantial Advantages you have in View by postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with that of the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that make the compleat human Being. Separate, she wants his Force of Body and Strength of Reason; he, her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are more likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissars. If you get a prudent healthy Wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking a Commerce with the Sex inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice, that in all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:

1. Because as they have more Knowledge of the World and their Minds are better stor'd with Observations, their Conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreable.

2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a 1000 Services small and great, and are the most tender and useful of all Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an old Woman who is not a good Woman.

3. Because there is no hazard of Children, which irregularly produc'd may be attended with much Inconvenience.

4. Because thro' more Experience, they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your Reputation. And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin'd to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part: The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.

6. Because the Sin is less. The debauching a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her for Life unhappy.

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.

8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!

Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry directly; being sincerely Your affectionate Friend.

I love it!
by MessyONE
18th century cougars, who knew?

I suspect, though, that the author of the letter was referring to ladies in their mid to late 30s. Thankfully, "old" isn't happening until a LOT later these days...
Page 1 of 5 (62 items)   1 2 3 4 5 Next >
View as RSS news feed in XML