Any empirical observation of nature would surely indicate that Mother Nature is creative and loves variety. Why are there so many varieties of bees, birds, ants, flowers etc on the planet? Why are there so many varieties of human beings on the planet? I think the answer is that Mother Nature is creative and enjoys abundance and variety. Ergo homosexual orientation in animals and human beings. If the interaction between the hormones of the mother and the fetus are such that the child becomes homosexual [we don't yet know if the father's sperm plays a part in this process], then so be it. Surely, the criteria should be the Buddhist approach of harm. Are we speaking about sociopaths or serial murderers who harm members of society? No. So exactly what harm is done to anyone if a child is homosexual or if two men or two women have sex or fall in love and want to get married? I think the answer is clearly none whatsoever. Then the harm rests with those whose beliefs make gay people not OK and want to mess with them in some way as did the Nazis - change their brains, restrict their ability to find housing, to get a job, name-calling - in short, commit all the ugly behaviours that human beings are capable of. It's also clear from a knowledge of history that societies can function very well when they leave gay people alone. Greece obviously found a way to incorporate homosexuality into its society: the result - great works of art, philosophy, and even democracy! In addition, the revulsion of Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalist Christians regarding homosexuality depends largely on the tale of Sodom and Gemorrah in the Old Testament. Recent Biblical scholarship indicates that the sin of Sodom and Gemmorah was not the homosexual behaviour of its citizens, but rather the inhospitability of its citizens to the visiting angels. These days Reformed Judaism and the United Church in Canada welcome gays into their congregation, and, as many of you may know, Canada has had gay marriage in now for over 4 years and the sky has not fallen. No harm has been done to straight people. In Toronto where I live, there is a sizeable gay population, but there are also people here from all over the world, and within this diversity, gay people are celebrated as just one more group, so what is the problem?
R

I'm sorry, I stopped reading after the opening line, which was to effect:

Any empirical observation of nature would surely indicate that an imaginary entity is creative and loves variety.

False.

j.harvey: Have you never heard of metaphors? Metaphors and similes are not "false". Ergo, "Mother Nature" is not false. It's simply an imaginative way of referring to the processes of nature, one that is commonly understood by everyone. Anyway, it's too bad that your feathers got ruffled in the opening statement because what I have to say is original and very interesting. Ah well...maybe next time.

I continued reading after the opening line. Very well said from beginning to end.

Harvey was fortunate, he stopped reading immediately. I had to endure all that poorly composed material on genetic drift and evolutionary processes.

I guess next time you should put 'mother nature' in quotes to ensure someone doesn't think you are refering to an actual mother!

Anyhow I like your take here.

This is an odd article that appears to tie some sense of spiritualism to nature. If we continue the Mother Nature shtick, why not ask what the evolutionary fitness of homosexual behavior is? While there is some alt behaviors seen in the wild, the sexual variety in Mother Nature is not all that varied sexually. There's more support from nature for incest, polyamory, and polygamy than there is for homosexuality.

So let's sum, the OP says homosexuality is part of the variety of nature. Then says some aspects of religion should support homosexual births. Then the historical record is referenced.

I don't think the Greek example is so great considering the rather second class nature of women in Athenian society. You might as well credit that sexism as being responsible for great works of art, philosophy, and democracy. Just because something existed concurrently doesn't translate as causation. Totally spurious.

Louis Solnicki:

j.harvey: Have you never heard of metaphors? Metaphors and similes are not "false". Ergo, "Mother Nature" is not false. It's simply an imaginative way of referring to the processes of nature, one that is commonly understood by everyone. Anyway, it's too bad that your feathers got ruffled in the opening statement because what I have to say is original and very interesting. Ah well...maybe next time.

I have to tell you that it does not read as a metaphor to me. I should also point out that 'processes of nature' by which I assume you mean evolution through natural selection is not at all commonly understood by everyone, at least not in my experience. But in the spirit of understanding I decided to read your entire piece.

So let me reposition myself. Perhaps a metaphor can not be 'false'. Your metaphor however suggests that there is some sentience at work here, what else can 'mother nature' represent? Unless you are suggesting that 'mother nature is creative and loving variety', in which three key words are explicitly suggestive of sentience at work, is a reasonable metaphor for the process in which some life forms die before they can reproduce while others reproduce before they die. Personally I don't think it is. In point of fact I think this 'metaphor' is clearly misleading to the uninformed reader and indicative of gross misunderstanding by the writer.

As to the rest of the letter I find nothing in there any more original than might be found in a bright fifteen year olds creative writing essay and certainly nothing more interesting. Furthermore I find your 'recent biblical research' point to be no more reasoned or relevant than the ridiculous claim it was aimed to counter, that somehow an ancient fairy tale has any place in an argument of morals or reason.

jonthom11702: Thank you for your kind words.

jazzguitarman: Thanks for your suggestion to use quotes around "Mother Nature". I'm glad you liked what I wrote.

Eigenvector: I don't think that what I wrote is poorly composed at all, and as for having to "endure", is it possible for your to disagree with someone without having to put them down?

anotion: I think that the "evolutionary fitness" of homosexuality has been very well documented in anthropological studies. In many tribes the world over, an effeminate male child was considered "special" and raised with the women until he was of an age to be initiated into the tribe as a shaman and healer. Amongst North American First Nation peoples, such a child was called "berdache". In addition, amongst the great ancient civilizations ruled by kings such as Persia which had harems at court, a eunich i.e. a homosexual male with a perpetual erection guarded the harem. Later, in the Middle Ages in Christian Europe, the monestaries and nunneries were the safest place for gay men and lesbians to go. They established a tradition of study and learning. When the Church developed schools, nuns and priests were the teachers and so a tradition arose of gay men and lesbians becoming the teachers of straight people's children. Today, in North American public and high schools, there are many closeted gay men and lesbians who are teachers. And, of course, as everyone knows, gay men are especially gifted as hairdressers and fashion designers. Every year they set the trends for what is the cool look for straight men and women. You could say that gay men help to facilitate the courtship rituals between straight men and women by helping starught women to be as beautiful and attractive as they can be. In short, homosexuals have been gifted by "Mother Nature" or evolution if you prefer, with many significant traits that make them fit to benefit the well-being of straight society and they have been doing this since forever.

Regarding the synchronicity of homosexuality and what you call "the second class nature of women" in Athenian society: Ancient Greece was a very complicated and complex place. First, it acceopted homosexual relations as well as marriage between men and women. In addition, some women held very powerful positions. Some were the oracles at sacred temples. Others were highly educated abd became companions of men, the heterae. In fact, the Greeks recognized the power of women in their worship of Athena, Aphrodite and Artemis. Sappho, who loved women and was their teacher on the island of Lesbos was a devotee of Aphrodite. In Plato's The Sympsium, Socrates who was homosexual went to seek the counsel of the wise spiritual teacher Diatoma. The ferment and the compexities of Ancient Greece helped to produce great architecture like the Parthenon, sculptures, the dramas of Sophacles, Euripides and Aristophanes, the Homeric epic poems of the Illiad and the Oddysee, the Olympic games and democracy and homosexuality was a key element in the mix, so I don't think that what I originally said was spurious at all.

j. harvey: May I suggest, sir, that you are wearing your girdle too tightly. Regarding my use of "Mother Nature" vs natural selection and evolution. Again, I am speaking in an imaginative way, not a scientific way to account for the abundance and variety of plants, animals and human beings on the planet. There are differenty ways to express truth: science and logic are not the only ways. The human brain has a left brain and a right brain which understand and process information very differently. In addition, the human mind is capable of utilizing many different faculties and the imagination is one of them. Poems are just as "true" as science, maybe more so because they come from the "soul". So I don't have a problem attributing sentience and a spiritual purpose to "Mother Nature" nor do I think that using the personification "Mother Nature" is at all misleading. I also think that I understand evolution and and natural selection very well. I also wonder why you can't disagree with me without putting me down and calling what I wrote an essay that a 15-year-old would write. That isn't true. There is no 15 year old who has the knowledge and information that I have nor the capability to write what I have written. However, I agree with you that the ancient fairy tale of Sodom and Gemorrah has no place in a discussion about the nature of homosexuality.

I disagree.

j.harvey: How did you know that I was 15? Are you psychic? Actually, I'm going to be 15 at the end of this month.