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$160,000 a year to start PLUS bonus?
by Screaming_chicken
No one....and I mean NO ONE has done anything to earn that kind of money right out of school. I don't care how allegedly tough that school was in the first place. Talk about a "profession" that needs to be reigned back into reality......oh wait that's right, lawyers write the rules in the first place and then get to judge them afterwards to boot! Can't see this mess getting too much worse in the coming years! LOL
Re: $160,000 a year to start PLUS bonus?
by RaiderJoe

As a big firm lawyer on my way out to a more sane lifestyle in government practice, let me try to put some perspective on things as to why salaries in "Biglaw" are the way they are:

While the money is undoubtedly eye-popping to the casual observer, consider the following:

1. In New York (and other big city firms), the typical minimum expectation is that an associate records 2,000 billable hours or more. Stated minimums, however, aren't the real "acceptable" level as far as many firms go, which can approach 2,500 hours if one is to expect to stay "on track" up the seniority pyramid. (Think of the 500 hour difference as being the rough equivalent of 10 additional 50-hour work weeks!) Because this doesn't include continuing ed, attendance at seminars, firm "marketing" such as writing articles for bar journals, and most pro bono work (which most associates do to gain experience or take a break from their otherwise mind numbing work for big corporate clients), work weeks in the 70-80 hour range are not uncommon. In reality, it's like having two $80k jobs, without the benefit of earning time and a half pay for your evenings or weekends. Given these schedules, with the exception of the summer program, most lunches in my firm are sandwiches eaten at attorneys' desks.

2. Overpaying junior associates is a misguided attempt by firm partners (who are lawyers and not businesspeople) to improve employee retention. Because of the extremely onerous hours demands and what, for most associates, is mindless and extremely tedious work reviewing documents (for litigators) or proofreading various agreements or SEC filings (for corporate attorneys) big firms like this have a real hard time retaining associates. Very few associates ever become partners in these firms, and indeed many people leave after 3-4 years because of the required sacrifices of one's personal life, love life, and mental and physical health. Rather than permitting associates to set flexible work schedules, choose the projects they work on, and make other changes to the practice that would improve the quality of life, the partners' solution has been to throw money at the retention problem. Incidentally, most firms admit that they are "losing" money on associates in the first 2-3 years because much of their billable time is "written off" due to inefficiencies of the learning curve.

3. Firms are really stupid in their hiring practices, cutting short their supply of talent. Most of the big firms that pay these huge salaries hire only graduates of the country's top law schools. Competition for these select few graduates is keen, and frankly (as a graduate of a "top" program) seems based on a weird, 1950s-style WASP assumption that expensive, private schools produce better lawyers. I've heard partners rave about dud candidates I've interviewed because of things like, "she went to Harvard!" No joke. Anyone who has been in practice for any amount of time knows that where you went to law school doesn't matter at all to anyone who knows better. If you expand the pool of eligible new hires to include schools lower down on the US News rankings list, you won't need to pay the insane salaries just to fill the seats.

4. Starting associates are crippled with student debt. While statistics in the $75-80k range are often reported as "average" debt levels, I actually think that most folks who aren't mom-and-dad-subsidized borrow nearly twice that. I worked througout law school, keeping my debt down to a "mere" $80k (including undergrad debt), but friends of mine graduated with $150k or more in loans to pay. Facing $1,500-2,000 per month in loan payments alone is enough to skew one's employment choices away from good legal jobs that pay starting salaries of an otherwise reasonable $40-50k.

Finally, as for the lunch "contribution" issue, it's definitely cynical stuff. It is, however, symptomatic of the inherent stupidity of so-called "Summer Associate" positions. While the expectation is that you are being evaluated on your ability to do the job as an associate, the Summer Programs tend to be more focused on silly fun, nice lunches, and free-flowing booze for all considered. While a "Summer" may draft a legal memo or go watch a deposition in action, they never witness one shred of the boring stuff that makes up associate life. Maybe it's time to get rid of these junkets for good -- and replace them with summer service programs doing pro bono work for those who need it.

Re: $160,000 a year to start PLUS bonus?
by Screaming_chicken

Thank you for your well-written (grin) reply to my near blathering post.

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