This is the reality gay folks have to live with:

None of our str8 friends, family, supporters--no matter how open, accepting, or even celebratory they are about us as gay grown ups--want gay kids.

Think about it.

When's the last time you heard a str8 expectant parent say, "I don't care if my baby is a boy or girl, as long as it's gay."

Or heard a str8 parent say about his kid, "I don't care what my child does with her life, just as long as she's a lesbian?"

(On the order of "I don't care if it's a boy or girl, as long as it's healthy. Or I don't care what my child does with her life as long as she's happy.)

At least before they have kids, str8 folks who intend to be parents want str8 kids.

No str8 person considers gay kids desirable. Before the fact, at least. Some str8 parents of gay kids come around on the matter. Too many don't.

1. I'm not sure why someone is gay, but I do know the fact of someone's being gay is NOT something a str8 person needs to come to terms with. Imagine coming to terms with the fact that other people exist. Like it's my problem a str8 person is "struggling" with my being gay.

2. Str8 "acceptance" is the last thing gay folks "need". We need acceptance as fellow Americans, e.g., with the same rights str8 folks enjoy w/o regard to our being gay. You see me, I'm an American, I'm not a felon, I have the same right as you, period, no further questions.

Access to human and civil rights isn't based on one's appeal or popularity. "All men are created equal..." Not just the ones we like being around.

I personally would love to have a gay child, so your presumption that no one WANTS a gay kid is incorrect. Just as you pointed out, most people don't care whether their child is male or female, as long as it's healthly - why wouldn't they also think "I don't care whether it's straight or gay, as long as it's healty"?

you think that all people who are becoming parents want straight children - children that reflect themselves - but i think that what they want is an easier life for their children, which unfortunately, means being straight.

Naturally, there are exceptions to my statement, although they are few and far between.

If it were common or even routine for str8 folks to hope their kids were gay, we wouldn't be having this discussion and Saletan would have to write about something else.

However, as long as str8 folks assume it's easier to be str8...

It's not easy to be str8. I can't imagine putting up with what would, to me, be the soul crushing cultural obligations that descend on str8 folks.

E.g., get married, have kids, pretend to enjoy being a parent, etc.

Gay folks do these things now, too, of course, but we don't get married, etc., because anyone expects us to do them.

A str8 person has to "explain" to others (especially other str8 folks) why she isn't married, doesn't have or want kids, let alone maybe dislikes being a parent.

I see a LOT of unhappy str8 folks. Unhappy with the cultural expectations put on str8 folks. And not sure how to deal with them except drink heavily and max out their credit cards.

I would be thrilled to have a gay child too, btw.

I agree with you the cultural bias against gays would predispose most people to err on the "safe" side and screen out for gayness if it became easy to do. But that just means we need a cultural revolution.. what we don't need is to sit back passively and accept the current social norms as inevitable for all generations.

I even agree straight people are miserable with the crushing expectations of heterosexuality and gender norms. I think it's unfortunate that the mainstream gay movement latched on to the slogan that "Gays are really just like you. We want the same things you want and live everyday lives just like you live."

as I'm sure deep down str8 people have been thinking "You're gay but you're still just like ME?? Then you must REALLY be miserable!"

What about a lesbian mother who gets pregnant by a sperm donor? If she's like most people, she'd want a child who would grow up to be queer. (Is it okay for me to use that word? I've heard GLBT folks use that term to describe themselves.) After all, she'd want her child to have something so fundamental in common with her.

One could hope that she would respect her child's individuality as much as she wants people to respect her own, and let him or her turn out straight - or not - as nature intended them to be. But based on what I know about people, I doubt that most of them would leave it up to chance, given the option.

I agree -- for me, my prospective child's sexual orientation is his or her business -- if he or she is gay, I will celebrate -- if he or she is straight, I will celebrate.

And thanks for the recognition that it's not easy being "straight." I'm not "straight," but I am in a monogamous heterosexual relationship, and the pressure to get married and have children is hard to deal with. I am constantly explaining why I don't have kids or why I might choose not to have kids.

In my ideal world, every child would be wanted and celebrated, and sex or sexual identity would not be a topic that engenders a cultural crisis. Sex is important, but there are so many things that are threats to human life that we should stop focusing on who is doing whom between consenting adults.

"What about a lesbian mother who gets pregnant by a sperm donor? If she's like most people, she'd want a child who would grow up to be queer. (Is it okay for me to use that word? I've heard GLBT folks use that term to describe themselves.) After all, she'd want her child to have something so fundamental in common with her."

Actually most gays and lesbians with children are terribly conflicted when their children also turn out to be gay precisely because they know what a hard life that can be. Someone said earlier that most parents want their children's lives to be easier, and thus would prefer their children to be straight because that's alot easier than growing up gay. Gay parents are no different in this regard.

the only reason so many people don't want a gay kid is because...so many people don't want gay kids! Because life is so hard for gays in our culture- without any reason for it- parents don't want their kids to be gay because they think it will make their lives more complicated and difficult. And unfortunately, this is probably a legitimate concern. BUT if no one cared whether people were gay or straight, then I think you would see pregnant parents saying " I don't care whether it's gay or straight as long as it's healthy." People don't fat kids either, for the same reason. People don't want kids who can't hit a baseball, for the same reason. People don't want ugly children for the same reason. It's just the parents being influenced by the rest of society. And as someone mentioned, most people just want their kids to be like them- they want them to be conventional and find a mate and pass down the genes. If people just stopped being so boring people would probably actually enjoy the excitement of finding out what their child's sexual identity developed into as they grew.

If it were a simple chemical shot (series of shots), then

Almost no one who is straight would choose to have their child set to be gay.

Almost everyone who is straight would choose to have their child set to straight.

Gay parents (basically only lesbians) might choose to have their kids set to be gay. However more likely only their daughters.

No child who found out he/she was set to be straight would be angry about that.

There would be gay children who found out they would have been straight but were set to be gay that would be angry about it.

Buggie

"The only reason"...

No, most straight parents want GRANDKIDS. They want their gene line to continue.

Heck, males (and increasingly females) want their surname to continue.

Gay men do not produce a lot of grandkids. I'm not sure about lesbians but I get the impression they have a lot less kids than straight women.

Just wanted to chime in with another exception. I, too, am straight and would have no probelm with raising a gay child. I will be happy to talk with my future son or daughter abou the man or woman they'll fall in love with. A part of me would actually be happy with a homosexual child. The only problem is that I'd fear for the way he/she might get discriminated against in school and at work. If we as a society make greater strides towards homosexual acceptance, I'm sure a lot more people won't mind having gay children so much. It's only normal for a parent to fear for her child's safety.

As a straight woman, I can also say that I'm troubled with the heteronormative pressure of marriage and children. I am 24 and I don't want to have kids. My friends, acquaintances, and partners are convinced that this is a "phase" that will change in a few years. But what if it doesn't? Most people, unfortunately, seem to automatically want kids without ever stopping to consider the seriousness or expense of the matter. I am worried that my chances of marriage will be impeded by my preference against having children of my own. I've heard people say that I should want kids because it's "natural." This is the same kind of terminology that people use to privilege heterosexuality. While I know that I don't face the same amount of prejudice as my homosexual friends, and I am not presumptuous enough to assume that I'm discriminated against in the same way, at least child-rearing isn't an expected outcome of gay relationships as it is for straight ones.

I am actually a married (socially, but not legally, unfortunately) lesbian currently pregnant with our first child.

To the contrary, we do not "want" our child to be gay so that we'll have that in common with them any more than we want our child to be female so we'll have THAT in common with her. You know, the whole "I raised you from a baby" thing is enough in common, really. We'll take either, and we know that we don't control it. And actually, we don't really think about it much... contrary to popular belief, we do not going around pondering our gayness all day long. What we worry about are normal things: not dropping the baby. Feeding it the right things. Not giving it neuroses by being too strict, too lenient, too suffocating, putting too much pressure on it, etc. Finding childcare. The quality of the schools around here. Saving for college.

The only time the possible sexual orientation of our child comes up is when anti-gay-parenting people are raising the objection that our child WILL be gay because we're modelling gay behavior for them.

For one thing, that wouldn't be a bad thing, except for how difficult anti-gay social sentiment makes life for us.

For another thing, it's untrue. Studies have shown that children of gays and lesbians do not turn out to be gay at a greater rate than children of straight couples.

My husband and I just had our first kid a couple of months ago. I asked my husband what he would think if our child was gay, his response was "I don't care if he's gay, as long as he's the best gay person out there." Which I still don't get what he meant by that. And I doubt he'd even be able to explain it. But then my husband is kind of hoping that our son turns out to be an interior designer/architect or a celebrity chef, or working for NASA.

I'm perfectly fine if our child is gay. Aslong as he's healthy, happy, and a good person. As a child I thought that homosexuality had to be biologically based, becuase with all the gay-bashing and stuff that happens I thought "Why would anyone CHOSE that?"

"No child who found out he/she was set to be straight would be angry about that."

I would be terribly upset if I found out my parents had 'set me to straight', or even the other way around. It is not their decision to make. Just as I would be upset if they gave me shots to make sure I would be a blonde, or tall... Being given the ability to choose for our children doesn't mean we SHOULD. A child should be accepted for exactly what it is, not what it can be made to be.

The most depressing part of this discussion is that the difficulty with being a gay kid is bigotry, and rather than fixing the bigotry, we're gonna fix the kid.

This is why I wouldn't care what orientation my kid was, and why I wouldn't change it even if I could, because rigging my kid for the so-called straight world would be an admission of defeat, despairing that a gay kid could live and face justice in this world.

If I found out that my kids were going to be born gay (and I wouldn't find out, given the choice) I would steel myself for what the world brings them, try to be a loyal parent and good ally, and try to make the world more just for my kids and all kids like them.

But, of course, we're all doing this already, right?