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Clinton supporters:
by Sawbones
+2/-2 Reply

I hereby state that there will be absolutely no sarcasm in this post. And no, that wasn't sarcastic, either. Any question below is intended to be taken 100% at face value, and I would appreciate any answers given to further my (admittedly limited) understanding.

There is a lot of talk about anger, about election theft, about party machinations, and about exacting a toll for all of the above come November. I've seen people write about sitting out, writing in Hillary's name, or voting for McCain, and all of that is perfectly within your rights. I couldn't see myself doing any of the above as a response, but having never to my knowledge been a woman, I can't claim to fully understand the mixed feelings this situation must hold even for a woman who supported Obama. So I'm asking for insight.

Is there anything specific that Obama and/or the Democratic Party can do to mend their part in the division that has emerged over the last several months? If so, what is it? Are there specific words that need to come out of specific mouths? Are there certain policies that need to be pushed to the forefront? Is there a specific role for Hillary Clinton in Obama's campaign and/or administration to make discussion possible? Are there specific women's issues that Obama or the party specifically need to address or prioritize?

If you could humor me, list the things you'd most like to see and try to rank them in order of descending priority as much as is possible. I am not going to agree or argue with anything unless specifically invited to do so; I just want to listen to what comes out.

Re: Clinton supporters:
by biteoftheweek

Is there anything specific that Obama and/or the Democratic Party can do to mend their part in the division that has emerged over the last several months? If so, what is it? Are there specific words that need to come out of specific mouths? Are there certain policies that need to be pushed to the forefront? Is there a specific role for Hillary Clinton in Obama's campaign and/or administration to make discussion possible? Are there specific women's issues that Obama or the party specifically need to address or prioritize?

All of these things would be helpful and would allow me to happily

support Obama

1. Ask Hillary to be on the ticket--right away

2. Get rid of Howard Dean and replace him with a woman who wasn't

involved in the primary scam (so not DB)

3. Acknowledge that there is anger and hurt, and that there is good

reason for it, and that he will do what he can to make sure this kind of

stuff doesn't keep happening.

4. Tell his supporters to cease the Hillary/woman bashing immediately, for they are not helping his cause.

Forgot to add
by biteoftheweek

that these are short-term bandaids. The party needs to take serious look at itself and its behavior toward women. The party needs to realize that women deserve a bigger voice in the party (because of sheer numbers).

I have not allied and shall not ally myself to any part or any measure save the one of justice and equality for woman; but the time has come when I strike, and proclaim my contempt for the tricksters who put their political heel on the rights of women at the very moment when their help is most needed.

Susan B Anthony

First of all,
by BobW

let it be said that the issue here has nothing whatsoever to do with one-time hippy chicks or with women with hormonal problems or women wishing they still had hormonal problems or women in particular at all. Let's get it straight right now. There are a lot of men in the group that remains royally pissed off at the way Hillary Clinton was railroaded. So forget about trying to understand the feelings of women. The feelings of Clinton's supporters are simple to grasp: They and their candidate were robbed. No fuzzy feelings there, just anger.

Howard Dean and the rest of the machinators at the DNC did not want Clinton to win the nomination and took steps to defeat her:

1. They denied Florida and Michigan the perfectly legal and sensible right to hold their primaries early, because those states would be decidedly pro-Clinton and the DNC did not want Clinton to get a large, early lead in delegates.

2. They supported and funded a neopphyte Senator who happened to be black, knowing full well he would draw away the strong support the Clintons have always enjoyed among black voters.

3. They finally gave Florida's delegates half a vote each at the convention, claiming this was fair. They gerrymandered the Michigan delegate count in Obama's favor and claimed this was fair because he removed his name from the ballot there.

What I want to see:

1. Obama must break with Dean and Brazile. He does not need them now and he badly needs to unite the party. Time to dump Dean and Brazile overboard. Clinton's supporters will recognize this gesture as a unifying move, because they do not so much blame Obama as his underhanded friends at the DNC.

2. Obama's people should talk to Clinton's people. Obama then should graciousy offer the VP slot to Clinton, and Clinton should just as graciously decline, saying she can accomplish more as a Senator, but promising to work for victory in November. This bit of symbolic play acting would do a lot to unify the party.

3. Later on, after the convention, Obama's people can leak interest in Clinton as a Cabinet member at, say, Health and Human Services.

'kay?

A sin of omission, I think.
by BobW

I don't think the DNC is so much anti-woman as anti-Hillary. True, they should have been honest about not liking her as a candidate and not liking the way the arrogance of the DLC, but they were never overtly sexist in any way. They don't hate all women, just that woman.

I'm sorry that they saw fit to rig the primaries against the first woman who had a real chance to win the White House, and I'm pissed that they did it out of sheer spite.

That said, I don't want the Republicans to win, so I hope Obama is wise enough to take the steps necessary to bring me back to the party.

Re: Forgot to add
by Sawbones

I'm just as interested in the longer-term fixes as the short-term ones, so feel free to offer those when you have the time (I realize that is a considerably more complex topic).

Two questions, one for you and one of a more procedural nature: if Clinton herself said she would prefer X position to the vice-presidency, would giving her that suffice? And as far as Dean, is that something Obama can accomplish directly, or is it governed by other party poobahs? I'm sure he can wield considerable influence as the nominee, but I don't know the particular mechanics of it.

P.S.
by Sawbones
Thanks for your thoughts.
Thanks for contributing. n/t
by Sawbones
I prefer in other positions
by biteoftheweek

than the VP spot. That is why I said that he should offer it to her instead of her being on the ticket. So yes, I would be fine with that.

If Obama can make the decision that the DNC will not longer take PAC money, then, as the leader of the party, he can do something about Howard Dean.

Just talk
by run75441

sawbones:

and establish a presence in Michigan which he failed to do until the later part of May. Clinton will survive and she will work her own deals if she so chooses to do.

The main reason for Michigan and Florida moving up their primaries was Dean's breaking of his promise to Michigan. No other states were to be moved up before the initial one and New Hampshire was to be held to their date. Brazile is a lackey.

Gee. Doctor Sawbones
by Skeppy

Is there anything specific that Obama and/or the Democratic Party can do to mend their part in the division that has emerged over the last several months? If so, what is it? Are there specific words that need to come out of specific mouths

You have diagnosed this little child. Your verdict? Incurable cancer. Others in the medical proffession have a second opinion. The child suffers from a rare incurable death dealing disease

The parents of this doomed child are shocked, terrified, at a complete loss.

Tell me Dr Sawbones what can be done to, in the face of the certain death of this child, to mend the confusion of the split medical opinions.

What specific words, from specific mouths can be uttered to ease the pain of the doomed child, the confusion of the anguished parents, the weird diagnostic differences?

Can medical research....

Give this Political Scientist a break.

I believe that you are serious.
by Skeppy

Why not dump the Dems and GOPs and become an Independent?

I did, in 1984,

I ran for election as a Repub in Hampton, NH 1962, I last voted as a registered Dem in Tip O'Neills MA Distict and kept on voting as a Dem for years after I left MA...until the next US Census.

Independents are good for this nation at this time.

Cheers

Re: First of all,
by NickD

First Clinton agreed to all of the party rules before the election. Then she ran a terrible campaign.

Clinton had zero problems with any of the rules until she realized she was losing badly. She waited too long to change her stratagy to win. And when she finally did it was too late. It was also a stratagy that was damaging the party as she damaged her opponent.

Deans 50 State stratagy is sound advice. It is what the Dems should have been doing all along and its the only hope of changing any red states to blue from dog catcher to governor and its working. Had Clinton employed a better stratagy she would have won she did not so she did not.

Why Clinton supporters want to blow up the party when it is finally starting to show success is beyond any hint of reasonable question.

A note from the real world.
by Schadenfreude

Obama leads McCain by 13 points among women voters.

In fact, he leads him in most demographic groups (Latinos, blacks, women, youth, etc.). McCain leads Obama among white males big-time.

Just sayin...

Re: A note from the real world.
by artandsoul
Exactly!
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