I'm sorry, I try to treat all valid faiths with respect, including Islam but this is a perfect example of how outdated and myopic the faith really is: modern Muslim women should walk as far away as possible from this practice and if their husbands-to-be are so hung up on their supposed virginity, walk away from these creeps too.

Of course, many Christians here in America are really just as bad with their thinking that kids should wait for their wedding night. All of these people just need to look at reality and move on.

What reality do Christian parents need to look at and move on?

The promotion of and insistence upon abstinence, as birth control or any other kind of control, is a failure.

The reality in which their children (me and most of my Christian-raised friends, for example) are having sex. I'd say one of the main things a parental "wait until marriage" viewpoint encourages is lying.

What I really hate about any religion or culture that insists people "wait until marriage" is that it is placing WAY too high a value on marriage for the sake of marriage. "waiting until marriage" first of all assumes that everyone gets married. that assumption devalues people as individuals. Secondly, even if someone does end up getting married, who in america gets married that early anymore??? Sure maybe "waiting to get married" worked out fine at times when most people got married and at age 19. But hello, most people I know in their 30s aren't married, and those who want to be are thinking maybe at like 35 or 40...are you really going to "wait" until you're 40?? I'm all for teenagers abstaining-I personally think that it is a VERY good idea to "wait" until your 20s, for purely logistical reasons. But why shouldn't grown adults of any gender have sex?

The fact is that all religions that preach against non-marital (pre-marital is a ridiculous term because again it assumes that everyone gets married) started out doing it as a form of birth control. Back before there was modern science, religion was a replacement for it. It's the same as a religion saying "don't eat meat on fridays" gee, maybe that is because the meat wasn't fresh on fridays in that region? It's the same thing. Authorities of the middle ages don't want a bunch of single parents and their children running around the system, so they say you can't have sex until you are married (which at its core, is an economic status). Now we have magical pills and condoms.

TheCloudBoy:

Of course, many Christians here in America are really just as bad with their thinking that kids should wait for their wedding night. All of these people just need to look at reality and move on.

Christians are just as bad? Is it really such a horrible thought to you to be faithful to your spouse both before and after the wedding? Parents know reality, and many times they have lived it. That's why they give it so much emphasis. One doesn't fight hard against something that one doesn't think is a real problem. You advocate capitulation of seriously held moral beliefs. Your respect for faith is illusory at best, and tongue-in-cheek mockery at worst.

ghost:

Is it really such a horrible thought to you to be faithful to your spouse both before and after the wedding?

Faithful before? If you haven't met the person yet, how can you be faithful to them?

In any case, I do think that waiting until marriage to have sex is a bad idea. After money, sex is the topic couples fight most about. If you don't know your sexuality and you haven't found out whether you are sexually compatible with your spouse, you're in for a hard slog that probably will end in divorce.

ghost:

Parents know reality, and many times they have lived it. That's why they give it so much emphasis. One doesn't fight hard against something that one doesn't think is a real problem.

That still doesn't make it a real problem. Most people who advocate virginity do so because of religous beliefs, despite the fact that very few people actually follow through. But being a virgin (or only having had sex with your spouse) isn't necessarily a preferred state of being. Now I wouldn't mind this, expect that they are fighting to prevent important information from getting to the children which IS a real problem.

buggie:

The fact is that all religions that preach against non-marital (pre-marital is a ridiculous term because again it assumes that everyone gets married) started out doing it as a form of birth control. Back before there was modern science, religion was a replacement for it. It's the same as a religion saying "don't eat meat on fridays" gee, maybe that is because the meat wasn't fresh on fridays in that region? It's the same thing. Authorities of the middle ages don't want a bunch of single parents and their children running around the system, so they say you can't have sex until you are married (which at its core, is an economic status). Now we have magical pills and condoms.

And then (actually, before) there were the Jews, who not only forbad eating pork and shellfish, which back then could kill you, also began the practice of circumcision which now, in the day of AIDS/HIV can help prevent sex killing you. Not to mention that a circumcised penis is much more aesthetically pleasant to the giver of oral sex...

Those Jews, what forward-thinkers.

Yup, cutting off the end of men's dicks is really progressive.

Its hygenic. Reduces the risk of penis cancer. Yeah, penis cancer. Good enough for me.

PhysicsGirl:

In any case, I do think that waiting until marriage to have sex is a bad idea. After money, sex is the topic couples fight most about. If you don't know your sexuality and you haven't found out whether you are sexually compatible with your spouse, you're in for a hard slog that probably will end in divorce.

Unfortunately, research actually shows the opposite is true. Premarital sex and cohabitation correlate with higher divorce rates. You will find people trying to give alternate explanations, but nobody refutes the correlations.

Truth be told, the end goal is to teach our children respect for marriage. Coming to your spouse as a virgin is the means: it signals that you have self-control and helps to establish trust that you will be monogomous. It seems unreasonable to expect a man, who is used to testing out women for their sexual compatibility, to magically transform into the faithful husband, just because he says he will. We like to think that teaching self-control should start well before one walks down the aisle. I do agree that perhaps too much emphasis can be placed on virginity for its own sake, because this emphasis may cause some who have fallen into temptation to think it's too late for them and that there is no point in self-control anymore. We need to encourage kids that have "fallen off the wagon" that they can get back on, and that they are not now "damaged goods." As Paul the Apostle noted, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

We want to intstill a respect for marriage in our kids and a respect for their future spouses, even if unknown. We teach them that real love requires sacrifice--which in this case means self-control--for the good of their spouses and children-to-be. We teach them to have the interests of others at heart, above the interests of their own flesh. If you care about your future grandchildren, you'll prepare your children now to be good and faithful spouses.

But maybe you think children are a pestilence, in which case we are on different planets.

"non-marital (pre-marital is a ridiculous term because again it assumes that everyone gets married) started out doing it as a form of birth control. Back before there was modern science, religion was a replacement for it. It's the same as a religion saying "don't eat meat on fridays" gee, maybe that is because the meat wasn't fresh on fridays in that region? It's the same thing. Authorities of the middle ages don't want a bunch of single parents and their children running around the system, so they say you can't have sex until you are married (which at its core, is an economic status). Now we have magical pills and condoms."

I agree with the point you are making, but... I see church sanctioned marriage as more of a way to control people than to prevent pregnancies in non-married women. Not eating meat on Fridays, (which forced me to endure an endless stream of bad fish dishes in school cafeterias when I was a kid), is another pointless way of controlling people. Many other rituals in organized religions of all faiths seem to serve the same purpose.

In fact, marriage as an institution, was largely conceived of by the Catholic and Lutheran Churches to control their members. This is not entirely dissimilar to what Islam tries to do with its legalism...

tarynwithat:

The promotion of and insistence upon abstinence, as birth control or any other kind of control, is a failure.

If you hear of any virgin births, let me know.

JenChi:

I'd say one of the main things a parental "wait until marriage" viewpoint encourages is lying.

The same can be said of shoplifting, I suppose. Maybe we should abandon the archaic "wait until you have money to buy that" viewpoint.

ghost:

tarynwithat:

The promotion of and insistence upon abstinence, as birth control or any other kind of control, is a failure.

If you hear of any virgin births, let me know.

The promotion of and insistence upon abstinence, as birth control or any other kind of control, is a failure.