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Ah Japan
by student_on_the_rebound
The country where black people are still occassionally referred to as the "black devil" and obasans stare into my grocery basket to see what sort of food "the gaijin" eats. Good times, good times.
Re: Ah Japan
by thebin
This is an undeniable fact- that Japan runs racism circles around the US. The US has more racial strife in its history than most other countries- which is product of the fact that subjects of European kings brought so many african slaves to the americas before the USA existed. The US should and does take responsability for its large part in this historical wrong. The Europeans? Not so much. Meanwhile the Japanese get no international criticism at all for treating all non-Japanese like farm animals even today. People just love hating on the US.
Re: Ah Japan
by redleopard

Yes; but "America" is the only country obsessed by it and certain types in "America" love to only single out white males as the only world's racists.The same hypocritical yanquis which run down whites/anglos for being racists & slavers are the same hypocrites that would honor and respect a Japanese racist or New World Hispanic racist (slave traders themselves) from Central and South America.

The reason being is because these hypocrites only see the color of the Japanese and the New World Hispanic and feel that they are justified in their actions be they good or bad.

America SUCKS!

Re: Ah Japan
by thewikked

What a joke. When Bill Clinton was going to ‘take responsibility’ for the US ‘large part in this historical wrong’ by way of an apology for American Slavery he was advised not to for political reasons. Maybe after Obama is elected he can apologize to African Americans. Wouldn’t that be great? Maybe the US can take responsibility for destroying Iraqi society by taking in more refugees instead of letting Syria and Jordan handle that burden. The US owes more to Iraq than an apology, but is unlikely to offer even that much. Fortunately Japan has renounced war.
Germany has done more to take responsibility for its historic crime than the US and possibly Japan as well.

I was treated with respect while living in Japan. In the doujo and in the classroom and on the street people were kind and friendly. One great thing about living in Japan is that people know how to listen, and they actually want to learn. They also know how to mind their own business so that you can sit at a café and talk about Israel or Christianity or whatever social ills you are interested in without some clown at the next table being offended. Students in Japan learn about evolution and recognize the value of science. There is no whining about intelligent design as the alternative theory. Religious groups are given more respect than they deserve, but an atheist can be elected to high office.

There is racism in Japan, just as there is in any country. It is never ok, but you exaggerate. It is too bad if you were treated like a farm animal there. I wasn’t. I cannot wait to go back.

Re: Ah Japan
by student_on_the_rebound

Of course the Japanese are friendly and hospitable. That's almost the most hilarious thing about it. Racism does not necessarily mean someone is mean and cruel to you... it means someone is not open or understanding of your culture or where you come from. I mean, the obasans were never mean to me; they're ridiculously nice, bringing me meals and helping me find the best train routes. But at the same time, they automatically assumed because I was white, I was blonde, or that I couldn't ever possibly comprehend their language. It didn't matter how much Japanese I tried to speak at them... they still automatically tried to switch into English. Sometimes it was so I would feel comfortable, but sometimes it was because the FOREIGNER could never understand even basic kanji.

It's quite a flip from France, interestingly. In Paris, when shopping, I tried English, because my French was embarrassingly bad. They pretended not to understand a word I said. I attempted broken French... and suddenly they could speak fluent English! What a coincidence.

Also, Wikked, before you start toting about how wonderful it is that Japanese students are taught evolution and aren't tied down by all that "silly religious stuff," consider that Japan has plenty of its own moral and religious extremes... Yay that Japanese schools teach evolution, but they push their students so mercilessly that Japan has the highest rate of teenage suicide in any industralized country, partially also because suicide is seen as an "honorable" way to go.

Now I'm not saying Japan is a terrible country. Far from it. It has its bright spots and its challenges like anywhere else. But I think sexism and racism can reach some disgusting levels in Japan, and both the national government and the world fail to address them while pointing the finger at the extremely self-conscious Untied States.

Re: Ah Japan
by thewikked

It is unfortunate the people you met were ridiculously nice but condescending at the same time. I wonder why. I was able to develop meaningful relationships that did not end when I got on a plane. I was encouraged to speak Japanese as well. And my students and friends were impressed when I demonstrated an ability to read and write kanji. Maybe you were in the wrong town..?

Yes there are moral and religious extremes in Japan. No doubt about it. Fortunately the people I came into contact were open to new ideas and were often critical of their own government and various aspects of their culture. They were humble and quick to admit the crimes of their past. I have not found that same sincerity or shame among Americans when discussing the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the burning of various cities in Japan that preceded these atrocities. More often I get poor attempts at justification.

Teenagers are not encouraged to commit suicide and they are not taught that it is honorable. The honor in suicide exists in other walks of life, but there, too, it is tragic. No doubt Japanese students are driven hard. But you will not see powerful Shinto groups or Buddhists interfering with science classes. Yay that you do not think it is dangerous and ridiculous to have intelligent design taught in science class, but silly Religious stuff is one of the weaknesses of American society. Faith is still seen as a virtue and a strength rather than as an irrational superstition to be tolerated in the spirit of liberal democracy, but not to be taken seriously.

Sexism and racism certainly exist in Japan. I guess the failure of the world to be more critical comes in part from the fact that it is an internal problem. In Japan there is lots of porn and lots of brutal sexual violence in manga and anime. But the mags like playboy are censored. It’s a ridiculous contradiction for me but it is based on a different sensitivity. There are greater crimes demanding international condemnation, like Islamic militancy, American war and support of violence in the middle east, Israeli ethnic cleansing and murder of Palestinian people, and China’s occupation of Tibet and destruction of Tibetan culture, including outright murder and the forced sterilization of Tibetan women.

Re: Ah Japan
by student_on_the_rebound

Of course they were impressed you could write kanji, just as we're impressed when a trained monkey can play an organ-grinder. That's simplistic, of course, but it highlights the same thing: foreigners who can speak Japanese or do things the "Japanese" way are seen with a sense of wonder, but they are never fully accepted. You can live in Japan for years, even be born in Japan, and still not be considered Japanese if 1) your grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents were Korean or Chinese or Brazilian or 2) you leave Japan for too long.

Of course you made meaningful relationships that didn't end as soon as you got on a plane. It's absurd to think otherwise, and of course you met people who grumble humbly about Japan's past atrocities.... but that is not the society at whole, and we are discussing the society as a whole. The Japanese government still claims the Rape of Nanking never happened... it's not taught in Japanese schools, it's taken out of Japanese textbooks. Compare that to Hiroshima.

The phenomenon is well documented in Japanese anthropology and studies of culture and custom. And while I can make no value judgement about your stay there or your friendships, it's possible they were seemingly so agreeable because they were afraid to tell the pushy, dominant American that h/she was being impolite. For the majority of Japanese, politeness is of utmost importance.... and something that would be perceived as assertive or forward in our culture is blushingly aggressive in theirs.

I love Japan. I think the Japanese, as a whole, are a wonderful example of countrymen who have opened their arms to the world. But while they have opened their arms, they have not opened their hearts. I find many more Japanese people who listen politely and agree with the "new" ideas I bring them... and then continue to do it just as they have always done. That is the crux problem of the Japanese; they are open, yet unaccepting... polite and humble while never revealing their true feelings. Yes, they may reveal them to you, as a very close friend, but to others, their countrymen, the one with whom open dialogue is the most important, they hide their true hearts and feelings. This is the Japanese way.

Re: Ah Japan
by thewikked

Were you, having demonstrated your proficiency in the Japanese language, regarded as little more than an organ grinding monkey? Would you accept a monkey who grinds the organ as your equal in terms of sophistication, culture, ability, and intelligence? Yes, your analogy is simplistic. So much so that it does not make your point for you.

It is true that non-Japanese are often not fully accepted in legal terms as citizens who do not suffer governmental discrimination. Racism certainly exists in Japan as well as in many other countries.

You need not remind me of the topic of our discussion. What does merit explanation, however, is how your apparent belief that the personal experiences you include in that discussion, those in support of general stereotypes, are valid; whereas mine, which contradict them, are not. How is that? Such discourse is characteristic of the pushy American that you mention.

You use society as a whole and the government interchangeably. Is it your position that political decisions and policies represent society as a whole? But there is and has been widespread criticism of and dissatisfaction with the government among members of society.

Yes there are and have been controversial textbooks written in Japan. There has also been open debate and protest among teachers and parents and other groups and involving lawsuits against such books, and most schools have not adopted them. This contradicts what you understand to be ‘the Japanese way’ which is that the Japanese ‘to their countrymen, the one with whom open dialogue is most important, they hide their true hearts and feelings.’ You might argue that Japanese textbooks still do not represent an accurate portrayal of many events that occurred. True, as in other countries, Japanese textbooks gloss over or ignore certain horrible shameful periods.

Compare American history texts. They do not adequately represent US atrocities in other countries. Unlike Japan, however, the US continues to invade other countries and kill civilians. The government continues to lie about the reasons for going to war as well as the behavior of its soldiers and officers fighting in war. Like Japan, it has been often through the confessions of soldiers who were unable to participate in the morally reprehensible acts of violence and murder that their fellow soldiers were engaged in that has been in part responsible for educating the public about the realities of US war making.

I am neither pushy nor American, and that is likely why I was able to form meaningful relationships there. Perhaps there is much in my world view and approach to interpersonal relationships that the Japanese I encountered found of value, recognizing it as having something in common with their own understanding. Maybe you were the pushy American to whom the Japanese were ridiculously polite but condescending, not wishing to offend you, but not seeing you as a worthy person for full acceptance. That seems to be your complaint. And yet you state that you love Japan. Wonderful. I hope you have a chance to go back and have a positive experience. The statement that the Japanese have not opened their hearts to the world is meaningless. What were these new ideas that you brought? Maybe they just did not like your new ideas. Did you explain to them the crux of their society’s problem, that they ‘never reveal their true feelings’? What is that judgement based on? Even if that statement characterizes Japanese society, who are you to suggest that Japanese society would be improved if they would just start telling everybody how they truly feel? What society do you hold up by way of comparison? What argument do you make? What depth of understanding and appreciation of Japanese culture did you demonstrate, and with what sensitivity did you advise them of their great flaw? Why should they be accepting of your new ideas?

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