The Case AGAINST Teaching The Hebrew Bible:

1) Why worship a Jewish God at a Jewish altar?

2) Why elevate this book, the Hebrew Bible, above all others? What happened to the Iliad, the Odysseys and the Aeneid, the classics of old?

3) 2/3 of the 6.5 billion people on planet Earth DO NOT share the "The Hebrew Bible so pervades Western culture" reasoning line. Why be exclusionists?

4) Why would the conquest of Canaan (or any other victory by the Jews) so violently described in the Hebrew Bible (Gexx:xx) be something to root for? I am a pacifist Etruscan and as such I have as much love for the Canaanites as I would for the Jewish people. Shouldn't a real universal god feel and act likewise? During World War I, the Germans went to war with "Gott mit uns" (God is with us) on their belt buckles and on the other side, the French and British clergy were also blessing their troops. Besides what kind of god is YWHW that cannot give a "virgin" Promised Land of Milk and Honey to his Chosen People thereby avoiding all the troubles? This is the selfsame god that in Genesis 4:3-5 "And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering..." Wouldn't a real god like both offerings equally? Why like Abel's fat, blood and animal sacrifices more than Cain's fruits and vegetables of the earth and why engender animosity between brothers? Not to mention collective punishment Genesis xxxyy. Are we to believe that the Jewish peope are more important than Egyptian innocent children? Given the above and the intensity by which YWHW cheers on his people to kill (Gexx:xx), why should I adopt YWHW as my god? In the endless game of tit for tat that humanity seems to like to play, would it make the killing of Jews justifiable then? Even the Holocaust?

5) The roots of Western civilization are Greco-Roman NOT Judeo-Christian. Democracy was invented at the Areopagus in Athens, Greece and rule of law and civil engineering by the Roman Empire. Watch the current travails of the European Constitution in trying to define its roots.

6) The Hebrew Bible is not that original. Actually plagiarism is quite the norm:
a) The creation of earth (Ge1:1-56)? Among many, both the Babylonian and the ancient Egyptian creation myths begin with swirling, chaotic waters.
b) Noah's tale (Ge1:1-56)? In the epic of Gilgamesh.
c) Moses abandoned in the river (Ge1:1-56)? King Sargon of Sumaria (and Romulus and Remus)
d) Moses receiving the Ten Commandments (Ge1:1-56)? Hammurabi receiving the laws from his god Shamash (in 1750 BCE) and before that we have the Sumerian Ur-Nammu's code (ca. 2100-2050 BCE)!
e) The Ten Commandments (Ge1:1-56)? In the declarations to Rekhti-merti-f-ent-Ma'at and the 42 negative affirmations listed in the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead as the Papyrus of Ani.
f) YWHW's Covenant with Abraham and Jacob? Early seventh-century Assyrian vassal treaties that outline the rights and obligations of subject people to their sovereign, that is Assyria.
g) Monotheism? The 18th dynasty Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten worshipped only one god, the Aten.

Those are the easy examples of things that came to light only in last hundred years. The stele of Hammurabi's code is in the Louvre, Paris, France and the Papyrus of Ani at the British Museum in London, England for all to see. Moses' tables exist only in the fantasy of the chroniclers of the Hebrew Bible on par with the Mormons' Gold Tablets. Who knows how many other "borrowings" (antecedents) from more ancient and preceding civilizations there are in the "divine revelation" of the Hebrew Bible.

7) As sacred texts go, is there any difference between the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Hebrew Bible as far as style is concerned?

8) Denying divine revelation status to the Hebrew Bible is NOT denying faith or god! The fact is all civilizations preceding, contemporary and following the 500-300 BC time frame the Hebrew Bible was composed had organized religions with their myths, high priests and devoted followers. Rome had a Pontifex Maximum long before the Hebrew Bible and Christianity were established.

9) If Jesus of Nazareth as a sacrificial lamb is required by some believers for the salvation of mankind, wouldn't Osiris and/or Dionysus also do? Myth for myth, would His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI now write a book on Dionysus of Naxos instead of Jesus of Nazareth? Instead of the fabulist rants of Jewish hicks the melodies of sophisticated Greeks?

10) Instead of teaching the parochial, sectarian and distorted point of view of the Hebrew Bible, why not teach UNIVERSAL morality and ethics? I am sure lots of other texts would qualify. Convene a new Septuagint? Commission our best inspirational, motivational and spiritual writers to inscribe text and they will be DIVINELY inspired.

Parallels with Christianity
It is possible that Dionysian mythology would later find its way into Christianity. There are many parallels between Dionysus and Jesus; both were said to have been born from a virgin mother, a mortal woman, but fathered by the king of heaven, to have returned from the dead, to have transformed water into wine, and to have been liberator of mankind. The Christian notions of eating and drinking "the flesh" and "blood" of Jesus were influenced by the cult of Dionysus. Dionysus was also distinct among Greek gods, as a deity commonly felt within individual followers. In a less benign example of influence on Christianity, Dionysus' followers, as well as another god, Pan, are said to have had the most influence on the modern view of Satan as animal-like and horned. It is also possible these similarities between Christianity and Dionysiac religion are all only representations of the same common religious archetypes. Furthermore, it is worth noting that the story of Jesus turning water into wine is only found in the Gospel of John, which differs on many points from the other Synoptic Gospels. That very passage, it has been suggested, was incorporated into the Gospel from an earlier source focusing on Jesus' miracles.
By the Hellenic era, Greek awareness of Osiris had grown, and attempts had been made to merge Greek philosophy, such as Platonism, and the cult of Osiris (especially the myth of his resurrection), resulting in a new mystery religion. Gradually, this became more popular, and was exported to other parts of the Greek sphere of influence. However, these mystery religions valued the change in wisdom, personality, and knowledge of fundamental truth, rather than the exact details of the acknowledged myths on which their teachings were superimposed. Thus in each region that it was exported to, the myth was changed to be about a similar local god, resulting in a series of gods, who had originally been quite distinct, but who were now syncretisms with Osiris. These gods became known as Osiris-Dionysus.

The term Osiris-Dionysus is used by some historians of religion to refer to a group of deities worshipped around the Mediterranean in the centuries prior to the birth of Jesus. It has been argued that these deities were closely related and shared many characteristics, most notably being male, partly-human, born of virgins, life-death-rebirth deities and other similar characteristics.

I will take it point by point

1) Jehovah is not a "Jewish" God. The word Jew means believer. Jews as an ethnicity is a later development.

2) The Bible is unique in human history. It is a piece of history in an of itself. If a person applies its principles in their lives the answer to your question becomes self evident.

3) Bible principles do not pervade any aspect of this wicked world, whether in the east or west.

4) I noticed how everytime this argumentation is made what is convienently left out is the wicked things the Canaanites were doing to themselves and others. Their religion was wicked. Human sacrifice was commonly carried out including infanticide. But I guess that is acceptable.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say Yahweh "cheered" the Isrealites on when executing the Canaanites.

5) I agree that the roots of Western civilization is Greaco Roman and not Judeo-Christian. Therefore, you cannot blame the Bible or Yahweh for the ills and troubles in society at large. You should blame pagan Greece and Roman society which was inherited. And as a side note, Western society is not a democracy it is an aristocracy.

6) The idea that the Hebrews "stole" there civilization from the Egyptians and the Babylonians is patently false. As recent research has shown, those theories of "borrowing" were ill-concieved. Semitic peoples (of whom the Babylonians were just a small part) and their language has been around since the beginnings of civilization. The various cultures of Northern Mesopotamia such as Mari, Ebla,etc., have shown that such simplistic conclusions are false.

AMEN!!!

Interesting synopsis of what we know, but no case other than you choose other traditions rather than the Judaic, which is fine from a Judaic pov. Stop murdering, stop raping, be hospitable, don't perform evil worship, don't eat the living flesh of an animal, don't steal, and don't slaughter Jews and you'll be in fine shape. The older Ma'at social contract inspired Judaism as did the older Aten monotheism, so you are on solid ground with your opinions of the elders. Really, the only advantage to Judaism and TNK is that both are still living and can be studied from life rather than fossils and ruins.

Good effort.

As for my old friend Predaking, good post, also. You would make a good Jew. Glad to see you again. Blessings upon you and yours.

theEtruscan:

3) 2/3 of the 6.5 billion people on planet Earth DO NOT share the "The Hebrew Bible so pervades Western culture" reasoning line. Why be exclusionists?

2/3 of the 6.5 billion people on planet Earth are NOT PART OF "Western culture", so what do their views on what is or is not part of Western culture have to do with anything?

Word your wild anti-religious rants better next time.

From the book "Nubian Gold" I can now quote a better version of the original post.

The Case AGAINST Studying or Teaching the Hebrew Bible:

• Why worship a Jewish God at a Jewish altar?
• Why elevate this book, the Hebrew Bible, above all others? What happened to the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Aeneid, the classics of old?
• Two thirds of the 6.5 billion people on planet Earth do not share the "The Hebrew Bible that so pervades Western culture" reasoning line. Why be exclusionists?
• Why should Westerners shoot themselves in the foot and cheer the downfall and demise of the Egyptian, Hellenistic and Roman Empires, the wellspring of Western civilization (see the Book of Daniel et al.)? Pathetic!
• Why would the conquest of Canaan (or any other victory by the Jews) so violently described in the Hebrew Bible (Joshua:8:25-27) be something to root for? Tarchon is a pacifist Etruscan and as such he has as much love for the Canaanites as he would for the Jewish people. Shouldn't a real universal god feel and act likewise? During World War I, the Germans went to war with Gott mit uns (God is with us) on their belt buckles and on the other side the French and British clergy were also blessing their troops. Besides what kind of god is YHWH that cannot give a "virgin" Promised Land of Milk and Honey to his Chosen People thereby avoiding all the troubles? This is the selfsame god that in Genesis 4:3-5 "And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering..." Wouldn't a real god like both offerings equally? Why like Abel's fat, blood and animal sacrifices more than Cain's fruits and vegetables of the earth and why engender animosity between brothers? Not to mention collective punishment and cruelty to animals (Joshua:6:21). Are we to believe that the Jewish people are more important than innocent Egyptian children (Exodus:13:15)? Given the above and the intensity by which YHWH cheers on his people to kill (Numbers:21:34-35), why should Tarchon adopt YHWH as his god? In the endless game of tit for tat that humanity seems to like to play, would it make the killing of Jews justifiable then? Even the Holocaust?
• The roots of Western civilization are Greco-Roman NOT Judeo-Christian. Democracy was invented at the Areopagus in Athens, Greece and rule of law and civil engineering by the Roman Empire. Watch the current travails of the European Constitution in trying to define its roots.
• The Hebrew Bible is not that original. Actually plagiarism is quite the norm:
• The creation of earth (Genesis:1:1-31)? Among many, both the Babylonian and the ancient Egyptian creation myths begin with swirling, chaotic waters.
• Cain and Abel (Genesis:4:1-16)? Seth and his brother Osiris.
• Noah's tale (Genesis:6:1)? In the epic of Gilgamesh.
• The Tower of Babel (Genesis:11:4)? In the Sumerian myth of Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta.
• YHWH's Covenant with Abraham and Jacob (Genesis. 9:17, 15:18, 17:2, 17:7, Ex. 19:5, Deut. 29:1, 29:9, et al.)? Early seventh-century Assyrian vassal treaties that outline the rights and obligations of subject people to their sovereign, that is Assyria.
• Moses abandoned in the river (Exodus:2:3)? King Sargon of Sumeria (and Romulus and Remus)
• Moses receiving the Ten Commandments (Exodus:19:21)? Hammurabi receiving the laws from his god Shamash (in 1750 BCE) and before that we have the Sumerian Ur-Nammu's code (ca. 2100-2050 BCE)!
• The Ten Commandments (Exodus:20:1-26)? In the declarations to Rekhti-merti-f-ent-Ma'at and the 42 negative affirmations listed in the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead as the Papyrus of Ani.
• Monotheism? The 18th dynasty Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten worshipped only one god, the Aten.

Those are the easy examples of things that came to light only in the last hundred years. The stele of Hammurabi's code is in the Louvre, Paris, France and the Papyrus of Ani at the British Museum in London, England for all to see. Moses' tablets exist only in the fantasy of the chroniclers of the Hebrew Bible on par with the Mormons' Gold Tablets. Who knows how many other "borrowings" (antecedents) from more ancient and preceding civilizations there are in the "divine revelation" of the Hebrew Bible?

• As sacred texts go, is there any difference between the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Hebrew Bible as far as style is concerned?
• Denying divine revelation status to the Hebrew Bible is NOT denying faith or god! The fact is all civilizations preceding, contemporary and following the 500-300 BCE time frame the Hebrew Bible was composed had organized religions with their myths, high priests and devoted followers. Rome had a Pontifex Maximum long before the Hebrew Bible and Christianity were established.
• If Jesus of Nazareth as a sacrificial lamb is required by some believers for the salvation of mankind, wouldn't Osiris and/or Dionysus also do? Myth for myth, would His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI now write a book on Dionysus of Naxos instead of Jesus of Nazareth? Instead of the fabulist rants of Jewish hicks the melodies of sophisticated Greeks?
• Instead of teaching the parochial, sectarian and distorted point of view of the Hebrew Bible, why not teach UNIVERSAL morality and ethics? Tarchon is sure lots of other texts would qualify. Convene a new Septuagint? Commission our best inspirational, motivational and spiritual writers to produce text and they will be DIVINELY inspired.

Parallels with Christianity A group of deities with closely related characteristics had already been in existence for centuries prior to the advent of Jesus. They were most notably males, demigods, born of virgins, underwent life-death-rebirth cycles and had redeeming powers for mankind. To describe them, the term Osiris-Dionysus is used. By the Hellenic era, Greek awareness of Osiris had grown, and attempts were made to merge this cult with that of Dionysus (the Bacchus of the Romans). The result was in a new mystery religion where the myth of the resurrection was paramount. Gradually this mystery religion spread to other parts of the Greek sphere of influence.

It is possible that this mythology later found its way into Christianity. Among the many similarities between Jesus and Osiris-Dionysus, the Christian notion of consuming "the flesh" and "blood" of Jesus is also shared by these cults and their followers could also commonly be "possessed" by these deities, go into trances and speak in tongues.