It's the same in marketing, fashion, entertainment and just about any other segment of our society. Why not feminism?

Thanks Dahlia for confirming that being over 50 ensures that our beliefs and thoughts can now be discounted as being "cranky." Hey, but you know, you are stuck with us for the next 40 years or so.

LOL....everything you say is true! In fact, I've now got added incentive to live to be 100; 50 more years of me as a pain in the ass to everyone I meet--especially the young and snippety!

on McCain too. Cranky will be the least of his worries.

I am a black woman, who was the first balck woman and third woman to graduate from my PhD program. Old is not the new "nigger". But priviledge and projecting anger are not acceptable, ever. Refusing to empathize with women of color and poor women's problems is also not acceptable.

The biggest problem second wavers always have ad is trivialization, navel gazing, and a relentless focus on the problems of elite women. Not the problems of daycare for poor women, not the problems of caregiving for older parents and young kids, not the problems of negotiating a world were sometimes the people who are the most evil to you ARE second wave elite white women who want you to act like them (in a mannish corporate way). If you want to flex time, no way. They didn't. You were supposed to be grateful to act like a man, neglect your kids, etc.

The worst treatment I've experienced has come from second wave rich white women. Yet, they also treated poorer, working class white women even worse. I made bridges with secretaries and janitors at one job to get ahead.

Today I work with a large number of 50ish white women who come from working class backgrounds and bootstrapped, as I did. We marvel at the entitlement of this large group of complainers who actually wind up stabbing women in the back (as this group of irredentist Clinton supporters will if they vote for McCain). The irony is that the women screaming loudist that they are feminist and people should be grateful also tend to be the ones to make it hardest for other women in their age group or other age/ethnic/gender groups to succeed.

So stop feeling sorry for yourself and actually think about how to help the other women. Stop nitpicking language and start working for scholarships.

In other words, think about someon other than you. Being as selfish as a 1970s male is not equality I'm tired of this craziness, and so are many of my 50ish white female colleagues. The less than 7 million people (365 of 18 million Clinton supporters) who claim to represent all women over 40 really don't. They are the very small, loud, shrill group who always looks for attention and tends to get int he way of the women who actually DO stuff.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way. ANd stop whining.

Just because I don't advertize about my life and have to whip out my sob story to justify my view, doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't valid. I suspect you are more in a twitch about me commandering the word "nigger" than my point. I guess only black people are going to be allowed to feel oppressed or to complain about it?

So normally I just read the posts and leave it at that because I am assured that no one on these posts really cares about what anyone else has to say, its just an easy way to say what you really feel without having anyone know you said it. For once I have to respond. Besides the fact that I have found the whole primary season ironic (once again the desires and advancements of black people and women are pitted against each other as they have throughout US history) I find your post very ironic. Here is this black woman stating that often her concerns as a black woman are disregarded by a certain group of feminists. And what do you do? Blithely disregard her concerns. Is it not possible that her point is just as valid as yours? Isn't it funny that oppressed groups are always so quick to be "the first" that they act like crabs in a barrel, pulling everyone else down to make sure that their oppressed group is "the first?"

So stop feeling sorry for yourself and actually think about how to help the other women. Stop nitpicking language and start working for scholarships.

So, it's okay for her to dismiss me and tell me to shut up, but not for me to say anything. Am I getting this right?

This is why I don't post. From my perspective I didn't see you agree with anything she said or try to argue for any of her points. All I have to base my opinions on is your post-title, which implies that its much harder to be a woman than it is to be black in the current environment using the word most likely to get a violent response from others followed by why it is harder now. Than I read your response to her which I must assume now was only focused on her personal response to you and not anything else she had said:

I suspect you are more in a twitch about me commandering the word "nigger" than my point. I guess only black people are going to be allowed to feel oppressed or to complain about it?

Which kind of sounded once again, to me at least, as women fighting with black people (and vice versa) over who is the most oppressed and ignoring how they can equally be oppressed. And than in the back of my mind I have this thought that if you didn't want black people to be upset over the use of the word nigger or to generate just this kind of response why would you use it? Its nice to say words are just words until you are called a bitch or a nigger. So I am sorry if you saw me as attacking you also, that was not my intention. Its not my intention now. I am just expressing my thoughts and your words which might have no basis on what you really think. It just greatly upsets me when I once again see people engaging in language and actions that are sure to both reinforce each others belief that the other oppressed group doesn't give a damn about them. But again this is why this is going to be my second and last post. Because I am sure that I have not expressed myself fully in way that doesn't further cause distrust and resentment between two groups.

angeljo well thought out. Thanks for posting something reasonable. DiffernetEllen: You lose.

Oh, that's a no brainer. You only see what you want to see. Does that work for you in the rest of your life too?

Thank you. SHe wouldn't engage the biggest point: minority and women and working class white women make common cause every day, and both have a similiar experience in being dismissed by upper class, elite women. Class has meaning. The refusal to empathize with women who have different experiences by class, race, and ethnicity causes some women to hurt other women. This woman's post was emblemac of that lack of empathy. If I can work with poor and working class white women, and help them, and be their friend, and look' past race to feel for them and work for their class/economic interests as people, why can't I expect that of others?

I said that lack of empathy, condescension, and oppressing other women is just not right. Stabbing other women in the back is not right. Trying to force other groups of women to abide by one group's standards is not right.

I am grateful for the nuanced responses and the defenses. It gives me hope.

The idea that white women have suffered more than black women (or men) is just laughable.