Sorry, but even in this enlightened age where a woman can be President, if a man doesn't pay completely pay for dinner on at least the first 3-4 dates, that's a warning sign of things to come. Terminal cheapness lasts forever. If he wants to drop a twenty on a $42 tab during the honeymoon/romance phase, imagine what he's going to be like later in life. It just gets worse, trust me.

My sister married a man much like this guy, and every single family interaction is just painful. Ordering takeout for 4 families? Mr. Cheap hides in the shadows hoping he can skate on chipping in. Dinner as couples? He wants to count drinks and tip 10%, making everyone at the table squirm. It's not just the LW who gets affected by her dating/marrying a cheapskate, it's everyone the LW ever will interact with socially forever. It gets worse with age.

There's a huge difference between being frugal and being cheap. A *frugal* man wouldn't let LW spend $80 on wine and homemade dinner, he'd suggest inexpensive alternatives. A *cheap* man will be more than happy to drink your $30 bottle of wine and never even think of returning the favor.

Just wait till Christmas and gift giving season to see how much worse this is going to get.

LW should dump Mr. Cheap now, it will save her a lifetime of heartache and embarrassment.

I would consider it a strike against a man if he insisted on paying for the first 3-4 dates.

My boyfriend and I are in the same income bracket and we have paid for things equally from day 1. That doesn't mean that we ask for every bill to be split up or calculate everything, but if he gets lunch one day, I get it the next. I wouldn't have it any other way.

GorillaKnows:

Sorry, but even in this enlightened age where a woman can be President, if a man doesn't pay completely pay for dinner on at least the first 3-4 dates, that's a warning sign of things to come. Terminal cheapness lasts forever. If he wants to drop a twenty on a $42 tab during the honeymoon/romance phase, imagine what he's going to be like later in life. It just gets worse, trust me.

My sister married a man much like this guy, and every single family interaction is just painful. Ordering takeout for 4 families? Mr. Cheap hides in the shadows hoping he can skate on chipping in. Dinner as couples? He wants to count drinks and tip 10%, making everyone at the table squirm. It's not just the LW who gets affected by her dating/marrying a cheapskate, it's everyone the LW ever will interact with socially forever. It gets worse with age.

There's a huge difference between being frugal and being cheap. A *frugal* man wouldn't let LW spend $80 on wine and homemade dinner, he'd suggest inexpensive alternatives. A *cheap* man will be more than happy to drink your $30 bottle of wine and never even think of returning the favor.

Just wait till Christmas and gift giving season to see how much worse this is going to get.

LW should dump Mr. Cheap now, it will save her a lifetime of heartache and embarrassment.

Thank you! His cheapness speaks volumes! If he this bad now, think about what the future will bring!

yeah - i tried that.

not dating guys who didn't pay 100% for everything

not dating guys who took me to restaurants which weren't ritzy

not dating guys who didn't lavish me with presents like i was the queen of sheba, rather than the she-devil of baltimore which i ACTUALLY am . . .

it didn't work out . ..

So what did you do? Invest in a new boytoy? Buy stock in the Energizer battery company?

Why can't there be some kind of happy medium? Why can't it be in print, and taught in schools so everyone knows? Why can't people be taught effective communication and listening skills? Seems like a lot of life's problems could be easily solved!

GorillaKnows:

if a man doesn't pay completely pay for dinner on at least the first 3-4 dates, that's a warning sign of things to come.

Oh? What things to come? Why should the guy pay for everything the first 3-4 dates if women are equals to men? You can tell whether someone is cheap or not without resorting to archiac dating rules. I've had plenty of satifactory relationships with men who were not cheap who did not pay for everything the first 3 or 4 dates.

GorillaKnows:

My sister married a man much like this guy, and every single family interaction is just painful. Ordering takeout for 4 families? Mr. Cheap hides in the shadows hoping he can skate on chipping in.

So why doesn't your sister just open her wallet and smack down the appropriate amount? I'm assuming that she's a perfectly capable adult. Or do you both have this idea that the *man* does the money thing?

I have a female friend who is as cheap as the BIL you describe. Actually she's a lot like the LW's boyfriend: she lets me cook dinner for her all the time (about 30% of the time she'll contribute some groceries, but she's such a cheap shopper that I prefer to buy my own good-quality ingredients), then skimps when we split the check at restaurants (she's such a cheap tipper--and tyrannical diner--that I end up making up for her share of the tip out of embarrassment).

She thinks we're best buds and doesn't seem to understand why I've been pulling back from our friendship. And she's not the kind of person who takes even the gentlest criticism or questioning well, so I find it impossible to say anything to her. That's life.

Let this be a lesson if you think this comment might apply to you.

Baltimore Aureole, what a great name, lol. Wont make any comments other than that, or that I am also a Baltimoron by birth.

The person that suggested that the man in question was cheap, was DP, not the author. and really, what gives you any idea that it is cheapness that is the issue? The two things that she brings up with a pricetag are the one dinner and the lunch. Lets take the lunch first. If I was in blill splitting mode and I have a Cobb Salad and a cola and the other person has the shrimp scampi and a glass of wine, chances are my end comes up less than theirs. Chances are this guy can do the math as well, but the assumption that he is a cheapskate is a stretch.

As for the LW cooking the dinner with wine and blowing 80 bucks, you have got to be kidding me. The only reason I got any play at all in my formative years was that I could have more fun on 20 bucks than any other human on the face of the Earth. This included dinner, drinks, dessert and 'more dessert', if'n you know what I mean. If you blew 80 bucks feeding two peeps, thats her issue, not his. If the LW is inviting him over for dinner and she makes it, there is no need to add to the stream of trade, but simple politeness might dictate showing up with one or more bottles of wine, etc.

The issue here is communication and, on the part of the LW, deception. I am not seeing the whole story here. If the guy is nice, but that clueless, he needs some guidance. If the LW cant bring herself to communicate something as central to any romantic relationship as issues of money, any relationship she is in is doomed anyhow.

Being a guy that is incredibly tight with money, but otherwise extremely giving to the womens in ma life, something doesnt compute with this story. I smell a rat, and I say to all the bitter harpies jumping on DP's cheapwagon to read the letter again and smell Denmark...

If you factor in today's gas costs, plus time and labor (tho I don't think she did), and a few pricey items (good wine, fine chocolates, coffee, organic meats and veg etc) it's probably not that much of an exaggeration.

The point is that he insists on going dutch yet mooches off her two-three times per week.

He knows exactly what he is doing. Then having the gall to throw in less than half of a given check - probably not even factoring tax & tip -- just adds insult to injury.

What a keeper!!

Why is everybody being so judgemental about her spending habits? You don't know how she can afford what she spends on food for this guy -- that's not the issue at all.

The crux of the matter is that she likes to be generous and this person is taking advantage. She wants a partner who matches her generosity -- what's so wrong with that?

When you start feeling taken advantage of by a cheapskate, it also starts to chafe that you need to ratchet down your usual impulse to be generous in order to stave off resentment. And it doesn't work, in any case.

Definitely a dealbreaker. They are not on the same page at all.

Trainspotter type:

When you start feeling taken advantage of by a cheapskate, it also starts to chafe that you need to ratchet down your usual impulse to be generous in order to stave off resentment. And it doesn't work, in any case.

Brilliant brilliant brilliant. I agree with your entire post but that paragraph in particular is so succinct I wish it was mine. This is exactly how I feel about one of my best friends and it is RUINING the friendship.

Cheers for that!

PhysicsGirl:

GorillaKnows:

if a man doesn't pay completely pay for dinner on at least the first 3-4 dates, that's a warning sign of things to come.

Oh? What things to come? Why should the guy pay for everything the first 3-4 dates if women are equals to men? You can tell whether someone is cheap or not without resorting to archiac dating rules. I've had plenty of satifactory relationships with men who were not cheap who did not pay for everything the first 3 or 4 dates.

GorillaKnows:

My sister married a man much like this guy, and every single family interaction is just painful. Ordering takeout for 4 families? Mr. Cheap hides in the shadows hoping he can skate on chipping in.

So why doesn't your sister just open her wallet and smack down the appropriate amount? I'm assuming that she's a perfectly capable adult. Or do you both have this idea that the *man* does the money thing?

I don't think it's "archaic" for a man to at least OFFER to pay for dinner early on dating. After things "settle down" a bit, then they can work into sharing/splitting/going dutch/whatever, but if ON THE FIRST DATE, the man says "So, let's split this!", well, I don't know many or any women that wouldn't think on SOME level "Oooookay..." Now, if the man reaches for the check and the woman says "I'd feel more comfortable splitting this", fine, but that's not what happened, *he* said "we're splitting this". Gross. Tacky.

As for why my sister doesn't plunk down cash, she doesn't work, or she does, part-time, and he takes all her money. Her not having a spine is a separate issue from my B-I-L's outrageous cheapness. It's not just about dinner! Another example, we'll be out with my family, my younger sisters family, and older sisters family (younger sister is married to cheapskate), and we'll be walking along the beach near their house and I'll stop to get ice cream cones for my 2 kids, my older sister will get cones for her kids, and my younger sister and cheapskate won't get cones for their kids, ages 4,6 and 8. So they start crying, but don't say anything, B-I-L just stands there. What do I do??? Do I say "Tough luck nieces, your dad is cheap!", no, I go and buy them cones, but do you know how awkward that is? Every time we visit that happens.

LW is in for the same. Cheapskates are cheapskates.

GorillaKnows,

Your sister has my sympathy. Because cheap is cheap! I've dated cheap. I've dated generous. Generous is better. I'm dating Generous right now! :)