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Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by LaurieAnnM
+2 Reply
posted this on BOTF but thought you might be interested in these two new developments..too if you haven't seen them.

It's so early in the day and yet it is already quite a curious news day. The talking Obama supporter heads who endlessly chatter on about Obama as the annoited King seem to be in typical mode this morning as they chatter on and on about when exactly Hillary will concede.

The one singular focused thought in their minds seems to be, like a hand wringing thought of: "'when, when, when, oh when, when, when, when will that B-word cry uncle?!"

I mean they don't literally say that but they so have that tone on MSNBC. They loathe Mrs. Clinton on MSNBC and they make no bones about that whatsoever......

But, Meanwhile....back at more reality based and less partisan emotionally stable based news sites I found , as I was scanning over the news headlines online..an item that says Clinton Campaign head, Terry McCauliffe stated this morning that Hillary will NOT concede tonight...and then scanning slightly more among the breaking news items...I find a developing story that So. Dakota is now in serious play and Hillary is actually expecting a large win in a state everyone has been insisting was going to go for Obama!

Could it be?
Is Ms. Clinton still in the game?

Shocking, if true...especially since for weeks Obama's Campaign at MSNBC ,as well as Slate's Deathwatch Fray along with endless streams of Obama supporters have all but declared her dead as can be?

Oh, it's probably just a crazy outlier poll that gives Clinton a 25 point lead in So. Dakota..eh?

But........

Should be an interesting day...

;-)

link on two So Dakota Polls
by LaurieAnnM
1 hour ago news item:McCauliffe:'Hillary will not concede
by LaurieAnnM

<link>

Earlier reports had an incorrect quote of Terry McCauliffe saying she would concede. But, in the past hour McCauliffe just released a statement saying that is incorrect and Hillary will not concede tonight.

What a roller coaster of a race.

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by Loree

It's comforting when Hope is all one has....for that can keep one going when the going IS tough.

But one little point that seems to be conveniently cast aside is this....the POPULAR vote doesn't ;mean a damned thing. If it did, we would have had Gore for president, and not have had to suffer through Bush and his Neo-Con presidency.

Where are your comments about the 'if' of Obama having a majory of delegates? That has to be factored in also:-)

To leave it completely out, is misleading and untruthful in a way?

yes and if the dems
by scully
had winner take all, like the republicans, Hillary would already be the nominee.
Discounting the NBC / MSNBC hype
by RCH1


All indications are that HRC will take SD with about a 25 point margin. But Portico is reporting that the OB expects are "flood" of super delegates after the primary is officially over after today. Once he reaches the magic number of 2,118, Clinton will acknowledge that he has secured the necessary delegates to be the nominee.

All indications are that Hillary will stop short of formally suspending or ending her race in her speech in New York City. Instead, she will pledge to continue to speak out on issues like health care. But for all intents and purposes, senior officials of the Hillary campaign acknowledge that the campaign is over.

Ron

Here's a post I wrote on this topic in April,Lor.
by LaurieAnnM
The Purpose of The Super Delegates
by LaurieAnnM
04/24/2008, 12:48 PM Favorites Reply LaurieAnnM (Joined on 12/21/2007, Posts 1,448),

So much talk about how the Super Delegates will finally cast their votes. But little has mentioned about the history of the super delegate system ,why it was created and what it is they consider when being placed in the position of having to intervene in the nomination process in order to select a candidate.

To do so might give some better idea as to how they end up voting. But, in truth this is a very difficult position for them to be in because both candidates have pretty good arguments as to why the Supers should go with either one of them.

First off, the Super Delegate System began to take shape in the Democratic after 1968 debacle where during the primary run, RFK got into the race after seeing what solid momentum the anti Viet Nam War candidate, Eugene McCarthy had.

Bobby Kennedy jumped in and took away much of McCarthy's momentum as he saw a viable base of support was to be had among the anti war faction.

And assuming if he got in and ran on that platform he figured being that he ,a better known candidate, could also beat back LBJ's assumed votes.

Two things happened with Kennedy's move into the campaign, one, LBJ almost immediately threw in the towel and came on TV and announced he would not seek another term.

And two: many in the McCarthy support base were outraged at RFK for interloping onto Gene Mccarthy's turf.

The rest of supporters ,most of them in fact, immediately jumped ship and latched themselves onto Kennedy's Peace Train.

Sadly, RFK was shot in L.A. Ca. on June 4th 1968 right after winning a decisive primary victory here.

By the time of the 1968 Convention,Hubert Humphrey, LBJ's VP, had been running as the more moderate dem. candidate .And he had some support among the centrists in the party,but in truth of fact, he had NEVER actually won even one primary!

Eugene McCarthy continued to plod along and had in fact won more primaries than anyone by the time the Convention Convened.

This was the Chicago Convention where the protesters rioted so much against the war that Chicago's vicious Mayor Daley sent his police storm troopers loose on the crowds of kids and beat them to a pulp, literally, with batons and billy clubs , maced them and arrested them by the hundreds and hundreds.

They chanted "The Whole is Watching!" as the police continued to push back and beat into their defiant crowds.

Meanwhile, back inside the Convention even though Humphrey had won no primaries at all, the party bosses decided he was the most viable candidate and they annoited him with the nomination..which he then succeeded in losing the race to Richard Nixon that November.

So much for Party Boss interventions.

It took some time for the DNC to develop the system of the Super delegates but it's genesis was inspired by the awful conditions that occured at the infamous 1968 Convention.

The Super Delegates system was created to put an end to back door smoke filled room mentality where party bosses like Daley, could take bribes and payoffs in order to make sure the guy they deemed the viable candidate got the nomination.

The Purpose of the Super Delegates is not take bribes or look to any particular pay off or utilize in their own minds, a particular bias or acclimation for any particular candidate,

But ,instead to base their support for a candidate soley on the basis of what is both best for the country, the party and expecially decide which candidate is the most electable as they see it.

That is what they are supposed to be making their choice on.That criteria.

They have been called in to do this once before in 1984 when Dem Candidate Gary Hart's (who was a big big democratic star, just like Obama..(the base was just enamored and in love with him!)

But, when a scandal emerged that showed the married man, Gary Hart had an affair with young woman, the Super Delegates intervened and gave the nomination to Mondale who had not won any where near the primaries that Hart had.

Mondale also lost that November,1984. So, so much for the Super Delegates and old Party boss politics intervention, thus far.

They have an awful lot on the line and much to consider.

But going back and if we look right now today on that criteria, above that they are supposed to operate on..i.e. which candidate is most electable, what is best for the party, and what is best for the country, criteria.. and then look at where each candidate stands right now..the Supers have a very very hard choice to make.

And as many have known for months, The Supers WILL decide the nomination...because neither candidate can get to the necessary amount of pledged delegates.

That's math no one can argue.

Neither one can get the necessary delegates to reach the goal post.

So, knowing that, Obama supporters claim well if Obama is leading her, he should get the super's vote.

But again, going back to the Hart adultery crisis..the supers decided he was radioactive because of that and although he had won the earlier primaries they believed him to be too tainted and damaged by the scandal so they gave it to Mondale.

Hillary has a somewhat viable argument that Wright will so dog him and continue to wear him down as a viable candidate that he just can't win in the general. (even though I know his core suporters don't care about the Wright issues but many people in the country do..that's just a fact).

So, there is some validity to her charge.Her other good arguments are Florida was a big big win for her and looks to a big flop for Obama in the general. She is able to hold and take all the big blue states plus the big all important Swing States that have decided the past two elections.

And of course her best argument is she can take a punch and she will punch back and draw blood.

As for Obama he can argue that although the Wright issue and the bitter comments in Pa. may have damaged him for the moment it can't be damaging him too much because he is still currently tied or leading by 8 points among democrats polled nationally.Plus, he he still ahead in pledged delegates.

That's a good argument but the National is only polling dems who by and large say that they would vote for HRC if he loses but HRC suporters by vastly larger numbers won't for him if she loses the nomination. So the Supers are looking at that, as well.

All in all ,this is going to be a very tough decision for the Super Delegates. But make no mistake..no matter what happens from here on in..it will be they who make the decision.

No one else.

They'll decide using the criteria, on what is best for the country and the party's best interests and of electibilty.

I wanted to add one more thing to this however..looking at all the stuff out there to read about the current state of the campaigns..so far and from what I have seen of Dean and Brazille..my gut tells me the DNC and maybe The supers too will give it to Obama even though I do believe and I bet they believe he will lose to McCain in the fall.

But, right now, I do think they will give it to him, for two main reasons: 1.) They don't want to alienate their African American base and

2.) They don't want Hillary to open up lawsuits on them(Dean and Donna Brazille in the DNC)

That would open up a big big can of worms that will really cause lots of headaches for the Democratic Party as a whole.

So, I am thinking in the Democratic Supers' minds..'for the party's sake', Obama will get it.

The big huge danger of them doing this is that if Obama loses to Mccain Dean and Brazil's careers are over.

But really I don't think the supers care so much about that if they believe the party itself will hold together.

I believe it will split and the dems will lose much of the older base if they give it to him.

That's why they are in a bad spot either way they decide.

Hope I'm worng.

HRC could at least join the party and win the general.

It will just come down to how much power Dean can wield...we'll have to wait and see.

You can just imagine the difficult position these supers are in right now.

Re: Discounting the NBC / MSNBC hype
by LaurieAnnM

all I can say to that Ron is he has been 'expecting' that flood of super delegates for a long time now...

....he's been getting a steady trickle, but he still hasn't yet reached that number.

But, I agree with you in that the supers continue in a very slow way been trending towards him these past weeks, curiously even as Hillary is actually the one racking up the big swing states since the Wright Story broke..

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by MaryAnne

That was a very good site and quite a wide spread,Laurie Ann.

I especially liked this.

<link>

Re: Here's a post I wrote on this topic in April,Lor.
by MaryAnne
Oh,my God,you mentioned that bad word again!
Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by TickleBob
Loree:

It's comforting when Hope is all one has....for that can keep one going when the going IS tough.

But one little point that seems to be conveniently cast aside is this....the POPULAR vote doesn't ;mean a damned thing. If it did, we would have had Gore for president, and not have had to suffer through Bush and his Neo-Con presidency.

Where are your comments about the 'if' of Obama having a majory of delegates? That has to be factored in also:-)

To leave it completely out, is misleading and untruthful in a way?

I want you to remember that you, yourself, and not someone else, themselves has written the highlighted statement above.

Remember also that this isn't the general election when the fate of the election falls on the Electoral College, but the Democrat Primary wherein they have invented a new dictatorship and headed it up with Howard Dean funded mostly by MoveOn.org.

Hillary is still a contender if the super delegates and seated delegates take this to the convention floor. If she does, she deserves the nominiation and probably would now win the general election. I think she has convinced enough Republicans albeit women, that she is one tough cookie and the woman's best hope for holding the Presidency.

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by LaurieAnnM

Thanks for that link,MA. And it's good someone is writing about the split happening in the Democratic party!

You won't see Keith Olbermann address this serious problem, will you? ;-)

It's a real serious problem now for the party.

There simply will no longer be a viable Democratic Party if they nominate Obama.

I understand how much Afro Americans and the far left lunatic fringe want this guy..but, at the end of the day..blacks are only 11% of the population.

and the leftists fringe are not a majority throughout the country at all either.

When 10,s of millions of middle aged and elderly women along with professional women in Legal Jobs, health care jobs, police jobs and Union jobs plus Hispanics and gays and blue collar men all going for Hillary...and many considering leaving the party and voting for McCain if Obama is nominated...if the DNC ignores these people they are committing party suicide.

But you know Howard Dean and Donna Brazil.....Donna's mad about it, and she wants Obama ...and still pushing hard for her guy.

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by LaurieAnnM

Hi Tickle Bob...you know what's so ironic about MoveOn.org?

They were created to help Bill Clinton get the smearing Ken Starr types off his back and 'move on'.

But, NOW MoveOn.org is employing the same sort of KenStarr/Karl Rovian right wing smear tactics on Hillary Clinton in an effort to get their more leftist candidate Barcak Obama elected?

Strange,twisted Irony,indeed,eh?!

;-)

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by Phoen-X

I switched from the MSNBC Hate Hillary Network to CNN News.

Thanks for the tip Laurie! I'll watch for election results in S.D. tonight. I would also like to hear Hillary's speech - not Dumbo's.

Dave

Re: Hillary Not Conceding and Ahead in So Dakota?
by LaurieAnnM

Dave..I say this in all truth and seriousness whenever Dumbo/Obama comes on the screen I turn the channel.

I simply can not bear seeing or hearing him after all that we now know about him.

I just can not stand him.

I don't know if I could vote for him even with Hillary as his VP.

I can not stand him.

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