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True republican Values
by Joe_JP

I pledge allegiance ... to the republic for which it stands.


A TPM Cafe piece on "democracy not being a suicide pact" had some good stuff including this:

To paraphrase Jefferson, successful Democracies are based on a well educated populace. A strong middle class and a commitment to the rule of law are also essential elements to keep the Democracy functioning. What else can we throw into the mix that has been well documented, let’s see, how about a commitment to country and a true belief in the free rights of others; including freedom of religion.

The best policy for promoting democratic freedoms in these countries is a long term commitment to expanding economic policy that only builds a strong middle class. This necessarily requires the development of a secular education for all citizens.

Until the roots for democracy have been built there is no chance for social development of a commitment to democratic values. The US Bush manifest destiny to create a democratic world through force must be eliminated.

Where is the connection to this board in particular? Clearly, part of this involves rule of law and other matters touching upon jurisprudence. Tax equity, (federal and state) government involvement in education, separation of church and state, etc., are all legal/constitutional matters in some fashion.*


Also, the "suicide pact" deal, h/t a comment there, was discussed here. Whenever I see an article about the perils of majority rule (what if a fundamentalist majority wins?) or the dangers of protecting rights over and above what a majority accepts/votes in, it is ever so clear that we are a republic. Fittingly, Jefferson's party is often known -- if confusingly to some today -- the Democratic-Republican Party since it promoted republican ends with a broad based appeal.

We aren't just concerned about majority rule here, though Bush v. Gore suggests that is not ensured. It is true that we commonly speak of a "democracy," but its a misnomer except to the degree it means we each have some degree of personal sovereignty. So, I guess it is correct, but it has to be qualified -- a republican democracy, one in which mere 50% +1 rule is not enough. So, there is religious freedom, and separation of church and state, or at least some degree of religious equality ... even if some want religious favoritism, sponsored by the government.

It means open government. The "investigating power" of Congress has a prime role here. The importance furthers the basic philosophy of an open society:

His philosophy of open society sort of came home to me because he made the point that there is a similarity between a Nazi regime and communist regime because they both believe that they have the ultimate truth. And since nobody is in possession of the ultimate truth, if you have a dogma like that, you have to impose it by force. And that`s what they have in common.


And he proposed the alternative, which is an open society, which is based on the recognition that nobody has -- is in possession of the truth, and therefore you need a critical process. And you have to respect other people`s opinions and interests and find a way for people with different views to live together, which is, of course, democracy. And that`s the society we live in.

One would hope so, though some here disagree. They want to continue to defend the Bush approach, which in some fashon is in no way limited to "Bush" in particular ... in a fashion many have been part of the conspiracy to deprive us of our fundamental values.

Even if bipartisan support of removal fails, changing the mind-set of this country to underline just what is wrong, and that it cannot get this far again ... power given will not be given up, and "good" people will abuse it too ... will hopefully seep into our national consciousness. But, we should fear an ancient truth that was raised at our very beginnings, even though it ended with a reminder of its proper limits:

accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government

-j

* Some note that certain judges appear to promote the views of a certain political party, thus crossing the line of law and politics. It should be noted, however, that most parties have a core constitutional underpining ... they support certain constitutional principles which are promoted by the judges their party reps appoint. Thus, Lincoln judges would find likely find Dred Scott bad law etc.

[This was posted by me elsewhere in a somewhat different form.]

Where we went wrong
by Iwasblind

"To paraphrase Jefferson, successful Democracies are based on a well educated populace."

That's where we really fucked up, isn't it?

Two examples:

Two years after 9/11, 70% of Americans believed Iraq was involved in the attack.

<link>

31% of Americans believe the Bible is the literal word of God, 47% believe it is the "inspired" word of God, while only 19% believe it is composed of fables, history and legends written by human beings.

<link>

Re: Where we went wrong
by gringo_911

Actually, a much bigger problem is that a large percentage of the population believes that according to the Constitution, the federal, state and local government are required to provide them with food, clothe, health care, housing and the like. It's their right, dammit!

Compared to this utter ignorance, whether Atta did meet with Saddam's people in Prague or not is of minor importance.

Re: True republican Values
by predicto

Thought provoking but the true similarity between the Commie and the NAZI is that both are socialist where an elite rules in the name of the common man with dicattorial powers. Kinda like Hillary Care, and the Boosh/Kennedy/McCain Amnest Bill. Will of the people and rule of law be damned.

Dd

Re: True republican Values
by greenridgeman
Good to see you. I thought maybe the NKVD had come. Been watching a long series on the Gestapo today. Tears of nostalgia streak my face.
Re: Where we went wrong
by predicto

Excellent!

Bravo. Short, sweet and right on target.

That percentage are the newly immigrated, illegals, whores and ethnic minorities who don't believe they are good enough to earn their own living, but that the White MAN (not woman) is able to earn enough to provide a fat living for everyone on the friggin planet even if it kills him. Not only can the White Man do that, but HE MUST do that according to their Marxist mentality.

You know what the funny thing about all that is, though? The White Man can carry his burden if he'd get just a little bit of cooperation. We just might be able to carry the Hindu, gook, greaser, silly cunt and neegar on our back all the way across the River of Life without even getting his/her feet wet, but do the miserable bastards really expect us to pack them in total comfort when they are stuffing their pockets and every orofice with pet rocks and holding onto lead beach balls?

Dd

Re: True republican Values
by predicto

Yes. heh heh heh. Those were the days. heh heh heh.

You know, seriously, one must begin to forgive Hitler when one realizes that post WW2 Germany was infested with Commies. A guy has to be a lttle bit ruthless if he's going to survive the likes of Joe Stalin and Lubyanka Prison, eh?

And more of the Truth? It was Jew banker and Rockefeller money that financed the Red Revolution against the Whites and then after 1920 used influence and cash to prop up every failed five year plan after that, even up until RR's time when he pulled the rug out from under them for ten seconds and they fell flat on their faces. Problem is, it is hard to tell which Jew was which, and whena people get their blood up and like chicken eating dogs, they get a taste for "chicken".

Me? I wouldn't hesitate to use Hitler's or Stalin's tactics on the Useful Idiots. It would save America for Freedom and Dignity. And it would put on notice the next socialist academic that felt like flapping his Ward Churchill gums.

And I just can't help but realize that if one day every conservative got up and just shot one alien and one demoncrat, we'd have a free country by noon.

Reath to DINOs!

Dd

Re: Where we went wrong
by Clark_Kent

What percentage of the American people believe that they have a constitutional right to be supported by government? What are your sources for these "facts"?

I don't think that more than 3,600 American families mourning the deaths of loved ones, 20,000 or so disabled wounded, hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqis, and more than 2,000,000 destitute Iraqi refugees in Jordan and Syria agree that the lies that started all this mess are of "minor importance."

Re: Where we went wrong
by Joe_JP

To the degree any humane society supplies some basic minimum, especially in times of need, yes, the government has some obligation to do so. In return, the people have various obligations, including paying taxes and so forth. Even illegal aliens pay taxes ... and often do a helluva lot of work in the process. What state of nature are you living in?

-j

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