The idea to me of both a religious and nationalist hopeland seems deeply repulsive. Are these people not free, to define for themselves what as human beings they believe? No state should be set up based on religion or nationalism and that is why the best hope for Israel is to intergrate into Palestine and live side by side with the Arabs, just as they did during the British Mandate of Palestine.

It is about time that the Zionists gave up this awful reterick that they are God's chosen people and that this land has been sworn to them. It is both inherently untrue and will only leads to the continuation of the percecution of the Jews as has happened for the last millenia. What the Jews must do is intergrate.

I agree with you 100% about religious nations. As an agnostic I really don't respect any and all religious views. Religion only continues because children are brainwashed and then grow up and pass on this brainwashing to their kin.

But I do disagree with your last point. YES, Jews should just intergrate BUT that isn't a smart move since they are likely to be killed, beaten etc...

In other words while Jews should intergrate until we can convince the Christians and Muslims to NOT hate and attack Jews it isn't fair to ask Jews to intergrate.

I would LOVE to see the day when the world no longer needs a country like Israel, but that day isn't here yet.

To underline the problems with "religious nations", there is no area as crazy as the Middle East. Recently I read where a man in Saudi Arabia was to be tried for being found in public with a women that was not a relative. He's facing decades behind bars for his transgression. Why, you may ask? You need to study the family unit in the Muslim religion to find the answer. The women carry the unique and onerous responsibily of the family's reputation. To be found with this man, the woman and man were risking the good reputation of both families. I have also read that Arafat, when times were tight for finding people willing to blow themselves up, sent his minions out to rape young Islamic women, then, offer them the opportunity to redeem their family name by strapping the explosives to their bodies! This story comes from one who was one of them and then left the movement because he could no longer live with Arafat's "vision".

While those are good examples, telling a nation of horry people in Brazil and Mexico to NOT use birth control is also just as crazy AND harmful to society.

Yes, many Muslims nations have some strange customs but all religious do. While Muslims customs get the most press (for very valid reasons), crazyness is a part of all religions.

I am Jewish, and happily assimilated into the USA! You can read my views in my own replies to Mr. Hitchens comments -- but in sum, I am saying that "assimilation is my salvation", that I believe that, due to the growing majority of Orthodox, (and intrangigent Orthodox), Israel is becoming more of a "super-semitic tyranny", and less of a true democracy than ever before. I do not believe Israel can ever become a true democracy unless it treats all people living there equally, and, say, give Christmas and Kwaanza as honor and respect as Hannuak as given. In the USA, there is at least a Token trying to give Chanuaka and Kwaanza the status of important religious holidays, (too!) In Israel, it is Judaism is more important than anything....and all the Jews should come back from "galut" (diasphora), whereas all the Arabs should go back to their own (Arab) lands. To me, this is repulsive because 1) I like living in the USA, as do many American Jews, 2) Arabas born, and with ancestors, in Israel, want just as much to stay there. ( The Israeli dream is for all Jews to Move to Israel, and all Arabs to get out. But this cannot be God's plan....because too many people would be made miserable by it!)

That said, most of the Jews who immigrated to Israel, and the "sabras" born there, LIKE living there. And LIKE being orthodox., (I don't like it....but they do. Why shouldn't they be able to live their own lives their own way? And this goes for the Arabs in Israel as well, of course.) My motto is "live and let live." You do your thing, I'll do mine.....

So, although I know I'd be miserable living under what I consider to be a theocratic state -- the truth of the matter is that I have an Orthodox cousin, who not only lives in Israel, (with his wife and five children)....but also lives in the Golan Heights! For some reason I'll never be able to understand, he and his family actually LIKE being Jewish, and LIKE living in Israel! Even I think he and his family should be allowed to "do their own thing" (beng Orthodox and living in Israel), even as I insist on doing mine (living in the good ol' USA!)

Having Israel merge into another country, would be like saying that Norway, Sweden and Denmark must merge into one country, ("Norswemark"?), or that Texas and Oklahoma should become one state! Israel's single-minded orthodoxy has, in my opinion, turned "the Land of Milk and Honey", into the "Land of Guilt (for Jews), and Fear, (for non-Jews)....but this is no reason why Israel should dissolve itself with the proposed new State of Palestine. Why can't Israel, and Jordan, and other, neighbouring Arab states, all donate an equal poetion of land, so that a "New Palestine" can come into existance for the Arab peoples who live there....and Israel can continue as a Jewish homeland, (and, if needed, a Jewish refuge?) The previous commentator on your post was right....Jews are still persecuted, (even in small ways), and the maintaining of a Jewish homeland is as important to just about all Jews, (including assimilationist me), as is having a homeland to other immigrant groups in the US. Maybe even more important....as a possible escape from the viral type of antisemitism that came with the Inquisition....and the Holocaust. And even Swedish-Americans, Norwegian Americans, and Danish Americans, (for example), would not want their individual, ancestral homelands to be melded into a new, proposed "Norswemark". Even people of common ancestry still want an individual "old country" to look back on....and perhaps visit as tourists.

I mean, isn't this just what the Irish were fighting....to have their own country, and not have it melded with Great Britain? For reasons of religion, (and probably economics also), Northern Ireland's people elected to stay close to Britain...but southern, (or The Republic of Ireland), chose to become a totally separate land

In Hebrew school, our teacher said that the Arabs in Israel should go to other Arab countries, (because they are all Arabs, after all), and leave Israel for Jews, (only.) And, of course, all the Jews in "galut" (diasphora), should go back to their ancestral homs, (Israel), too!

This is very wrong, as I have said. Israel should continue to exist as a land for those who wish to live their. Jews and Arabs both. But it should become more plurastic, more honouring of Ramdan, Christmas and Kwaanza, for example. How otherwise can it really be a true democracy....as it always boasts it is!

In my estimation, Israel should continue to exist. But as a more democratic, pluralistic state. And part of Israel...as wellas part of neighbouring Arab lands -- should be annexed, and made into a new "State of Palestine", for those of Palestinan ancestry who wish to live there. Telling Arabs in Israel to "go home" to "their" Arab contries is like telling someone from New York to move to Arizona, because both are states of the United States!

Israel should not be forced to give all the land for a "New Palestine". It should give its fair share of land....just as neighouring cvountries, (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt), should give their fair share. Both Israelis and their Arab neighbours are "Semites". They should live together in peace! And not put a fear over on anyone! Individuality is a hallmark of the 21st century -- or so it seems to be shaping up as so. If Israel is to show others how to be a moral country, it needs first to be a just country, to all who wish to dwell there.

But it must remain as a country. An indivdual country, a pluralistic country, a country with fairness for all. But an extant country, nonetheless!

Sounds good except, what do you do with Hamas, a violent, agressive group, whose charter specifically states that they cannot give up any of the land because it is an "Islamic trust" that requires under no circumstances are they to relinquish one square inch to Isreal. I'd say that a deal breaker.

Hmmmm.....that IS a "toughie". Never heard of the "Islamic Trust" before, although, (of course?) I've heard of Hammas..... Well...maybe I'd look into the life of the Prophet Mohammed himself, and see if anything in it could re-interpret the "Islamic Trust" idea, into one of sharing land with one's neighbours, And, come to think of it, Hamas wouldn't be giving any land to Israel at all...they'd be "donating" their "share" (along with everyone else's "shares"), to the Palestinians, so the Palestinians would winde up with a homeland, (too!) If they didn't agree to this, (to me, quite reasonable) request to donate some of their land, (as would Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, etc, also be "donating" land), so that the Palestinans could have a country.....if they didn't want to do this, the other countries could impose economic sanctions....and/or give Hamas a dressing-down at the UN, or even take away any status they might have at the UN, (as observers, etc). Hopefully, all the other member-countries at the UN would co-operate here

It IS repugant to me, a happily-Assemilated American Jewish person, to be told (over and over and over,,,) that this land, (Israel), is your homeland, and you MUST go there, and live a Jewish life. (Israel is a country again....it NEEDS all Jews to come and live there!) Ulgh! I had enough of rhis in Hebrew school as a kid, but the subject comes up again, when I visit religious relatives, (who are otherwise truly nice people.) Yes, a person should be able to decide, for her or himself, what religion they wish to follow, and what place they'd wish to live in. But too many Israelis and their sympathizers, have become "evangelists" ....their "evangelism" being that of convincing Jewish people to o live in Israel! (I believe in "live & let live". Until and Unless Israel, (and Hamass, and the other Arab countries), come to believe that they are there to Help each other, and not destroy each other, the "Holy" land will always been one of bullet (holes!), as well as holiness!