is the term for gentiles employed to turn on the lights and perform other tasks Orthodox Jews are forbidden to do on the Sabbath. This practice has its roots, one suspects, in the class-consciousness of some Jewish villages in places like Russia; it demonstrated that the richer Jews were closer to God by being able to afford to obey religious laws more literally, and also gave them a chance to throw their weight around with the local non-Jews by offering them jobs and thus disarming their anti-semitic impulses. I found it amusing that Hitchens invoked this idea by reminding us the extent to which Israel is relying on non-Jews for its security.

Israel exists. So does anti-semitism. This should be obvious, but it constantly bears repeating that there is a difference between those offended by the actions and policies of Israel's right wing and those who want to take up where Hitler left off. Plenty of the latter still exist and thrive and hold positions of power, given legitimacy by those of the former, and as long as they do Israel's right wing will prevail. The cycle continues.

It seems inevitable that the day will come when American soldiers will be asked to fight and die for Israel. (Some think that day has already here.) That's a tough one. What does it mean if they refuse? What does it mean if Israel falls? Will the diaspora continue? Will the Jewish people continue? Within most of our lifetimes, I suspect, we will have to confront these questions. The question of whether there's a difference between a Jew and a Zionist is one everyone -- Jews, Zionists, and gentiles -- will have to confront.

...and NO American should ever, EVER die for Israel. Too many Americans already place more of their allegience with the Zionist Entity than they do with their own country - and I don't mean just American Jews, many of whom question a lot of what Israel does.

Americans need to stop believing that the world is ours to care for, regulate, control, or dominate. We need to mind our own fucking business for a change.

Horus:

...and NO American should ever, EVER die for Israel. Too many Americans already place more of their allegience with the Zionist Entity than they do with their own country - and I don't mean just American Jews, many of whom question a lot of what Israel does.

Americans need to stop believing that the world is ours to care for, regulate, control, or dominate. We need to mind our own fucking business for a change.

i hope you mean by that that no american should be forced to die for israel against his/her will. or for saudi arabia, who are much more the immediate beneficiaries of keeping iraq out of iran's hands.

i would imagine volunteering for a cause in which one believes is still permitted.

....all volunteers are busy at the moment.....

'What does it mean if Israel falls?'

everyone's credit rating gets cancelled?

i know you aren't supposed to answer a question with a question. sorry.

..and that's what I meant. But of course that doesn't in any way PROHIBIT Americans from dying for whatever cause they wish to, short of one which damages the U.S. itself. It's still a matter of individual choice, yes.

hmm think we are a long way from ever having to contribute ground troops to Israel's defense, in any case they always rejected them when actual armies were fighting them.

I think that the billions of dollars that the US gives to Israel every year for "defense" (without checking what they do with it) could have saved American lives in Iraq and Aghanistan. So US soldiers are aleady dying in defense of Israel, in a rather direct fashion.

Aside from the problem that the Iraq war is detrimental to Israel's security, as was predicted by quite a few folks, me included, who knew damn well that iraq was as feeble a threat to israel as it was to the us, and that the only country bothered by iraq was iran, who of course represented a major threat to israel. In fact, Americans are dying in Iraq in order to make Israel insecure. Oh, and the fact that tactics, hardware, intel, etc. used by the US in the Middle East are largely obtained from israel, by having Israel provide the US' proxy for the cold war real life war games the US and Russia played out in the Middle East. of course, what Israel does with that "billions of dollars that the US gives to Israel every year for "defense" (without checking what they do with it) " is spend it in the us on military hardware. israel is just another conduit for the US military industrial complex to launder tax money.

The term "Shabbos Goyim" is offensive to me. The term "goyim" is offensive to me. It separates some Human Beings from other Human Beings. It allows Jews to look down on others. For a "Shabbos Goy" is one who performs physical labor on the Sabbath...when Jews are forbidden to do so. I heard a rabbi say once that Jews must be holy, whereas non-Jews must be righteous. This is nonsense. Can't a non-Jew be holy? Can't a Jew be righteous? And what about people like Meyer Lansky and Al Capone...who were neither righteous nor holy?

The term "goy" means "stranger". How can one Human Being be a stranger from another forever....just due to different religions? The term "goy" is an equivalent epithet to that of "dirty Jew". Both promote horrible stereotypes.

If Jews want others to see how wrong anti-semitism is, the least that can be done is for Jews to see how wrong "anti-goyism" is. This need not necessarily connote hatrid...all it need do is connote superiourity!

I believe absolutely in the Native American idea of "walkng a thousand miles in someone's moccassins" before judging them. This goes for Jews as well as Gentiles. No one is superiour to anyone....except God. I am Jewish, and I abhor the terms "goy" and "goyim" as much as I do "dirty Jew" and 'Kike".

We;re all HUMAN BEINGS, P.E.O.P.L.E., for goodness' sakes!