What crime was committed here? This is just government kidnapping. And it happens every day all over the country as innocent children are handed over to pedophile CPS workers.

Are you going to be able to recognize fascism when they lock you up with no due process? Maybe? You might want to start paying attention.

If I join a cult and encourage my 14 year old girl to get pregnant by a 50 year old man, and force her into the same lifestyle, then I've lost my senses and don't deserve to have kids.

It's nothing more than excuse for old men to get down with multiple under age girls and knock them up, and raise those girls up to do the same.

It's sexual abuse and as such should not be tolerated. Not even under the guise of 'religious freedom'.

The crime that was committed were multiple violations of consent laws as well as laws against polygamy.

Anyone who forces their daughters to be pregnant by the age of 15, not only should have their children taken away, they need to be sterilized so they cannot have any more.

You do understand that this site is called 'jurisprudence' and the core of the issue here is how the legal system has to deal with issues that all reasonable people agreed are 'bad' for society within the frame work of the bill of rights.

First one would have to define what a 'cult' is from a legal point of view.

Second you use the ages of 14 and 50 in your example. Are these just examples or the actual legal age cutoffs? In other words if the girl was 15 and the guy 49 would it then be legal? 16 and 30?

Indians eating mushrooms might also just be an excuse to use drugs instead of a religious experience but religious freedom is an important right.

Should the state remove a gay child from Catholic parents who tell the kid NOT to use condoms since that is a sin? The gay child can get AIDS and the parent's religious views are putting that child at risk?

In other words WHERE the line is draw is why this is such an interesting story and legal situation.

THE CRIME THAT HAS BEEN COMMINTED? LAST I KNEW IT IS ILEAGAL FOR A MAN TO FORCE HIMSELF INTO SEXUAL RELATIONS AND MARRIGA WITH AN UNDERAGE GIRL. YES THEY MAY HAVE MADE MISTAKES ABOUT SOME GIRLS AGES BUT THERE ARE STILL GIRLS THAT HAVE HAD CHILDREN UNDERAGE. THERE ARE MANY WOMEN WHO HAVE ESCAPED THE ENVIROMENT AND TOLD THE HORROR STORY OF WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH. O YA, AND ISNT THEIR PROPHET IN JAIL FOR SETTING UP THE RAPE OF UNDERAGE GIRLS? MAYBE THIS WOULD BE OK IF YOU WHERE NEANDERTHALLS BUT LIVING IN THE 21ST CENTERY WE HAVE A LITTLE HING CALLED THE GOVERNMENT WHO IS HERE TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS, AND THESE LITTLE GIRLS RIGHTS, NOT ALL MOTHER KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CHILDREN. HAVNT YOU EVER HERD THE STORY OF MOMS DROWNING THEIR CHILDREN? SO IF THESE WOMEN ARE WILLING TO LET THEIR DAUGHTERS BE ABUSED IN THE NAME OF GOD, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN GOD TELLS HER TO MAKE THE KIDS POISONED COOLAID? I AM GLAD THE GOVERNMENT (MINUS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION) IS TRYING TO PROTECT THESE CHILDREN AGAINST SICK PEDOPHILLES.

Since you mention a specific age, 15, can I assume that these 'cults' would be able to continue what they do but just ensure the daughters are at least 16 before having them marry these 'old men'.

As we both know these girls at 16 are still going to be brainwashed by their parents. In other words many girls would still be at risk.

To me the 'evil' here is religious brainwashing (parents passing on bogus myths to their children) but I don't see how it can be made a crime.

Foobar, child molestation occured, the only problem here is that the Gov't used a fake phone call, and inaccurate information to take every single woman out of the compound calling adults children, and saying all children had children when they didn't. The people involved in this need to be punished, probably fired, but lets not pretend that the child molesters deserve to be allowed to continue.

patron002:

Foobar, child molestation occured, the only problem here is that the Gov't used a fake phone call, and inaccurate information to take every single woman out of the compound calling adults children, and saying all children had children when they didn't. The people involved in this need to be punished, probably fired, but lets not pretend that the child molesters deserve to be allowed to continue.

You're probably right about the abuse taking place - having not been there, I reserve forming an actual opinion until I get a chance to view the governments case in more detail - and Foobar's (probable) willful ignorance aside, I'm afraid I think he/she has a point. The government did act in a way that violated the civil rights of the people in the compound. They may be guilty of any number of crimes, but if government agencies are able to conduct these types of operations initially with court sanction - well - the question "and when they come for your kids" becomes less hypothetical...

"THE CRIME THAT HAS BEEN COMMINTED?"

If there has been a crime committed here, why hasn't the government, in any of its myriad forms, filed any charges against anyone? Because there is no evidence of a crime.

"LAST I KNEW IT IS ILEAGAL FOR A MAN TO FORCE HIMSELF INTO SEXUAL RELATIONS AND MARRIGA WITH AN UNDERAGE GIRL. YES THEY MAY HAVE MADE MISTAKES ABOUT SOME GIRLS AGES BUT THERE ARE STILL GIRLS THAT HAVE HAD CHILDREN UNDERAGE. THERE ARE MANY WOMEN WHO HAVE ESCAPED THE ENVIROMENT AND TOLD THE HORROR STORY OF WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH."

The crime here, if there is one, is statutory rape. These alleged marriages do not conform to marriage as the State of Texas defines it. No marriage, no violation of Texas' law against bigamy.

What others have said about what happened/happens at the YFZ compound is heresay. Heresay is inadmissable in court. There must be direct evidence. Moreover, the children had to have been in "imminent danger" before children's services could, legally, remove them. The appellate court didn't find that there was evidence that placed these children in "imminent danger."

" O YA, AND ISNT THEIR PROPHET IN JAIL FOR SETTING UP THE RAPE OF UNDERAGE GIRLS? MAYBE THIS WOULD BE OK IF YOU WHERE NEANDERTHALLS BUT LIVING IN THE 21ST CENTERY WE HAVE A LITTLE HING CALLED THE GOVERNMENT WHO IS HERE TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS, AND THESE LITTLE GIRLS RIGHTS, NOT ALL MOTHER KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CHILDREN."

What Warren Jeffs did, or didn't do, is completely immaterial and irrelevant to what the State of Texas did at the YFZ compound. Jeff's being a criminal did not put the children at the YFZ compound in "imminent danger." Thefore, children's services was not justified in removing them. In our system of jurisprudence, we require direct evidence to link someone to a crime. There is no such thing as "guilt by association."

I would say, in this case, the government has not protected anyone's rights. Rather, they have violated the righst of the women and children involved. Three judges sitting on the Texas appellate bench says this is what happened. I may be wrong, but I think those three judges know more about the law and the constitution than you do. [At least, their decision wasn't written in all caps. And they can spell. Which, probably puts them way out of reach of someone of your limited intellect.]

HAVNT YOU EVER HERD THE STORY OF MOMS DROWNING THEIR CHILDREN? SO IF THESE WOMEN ARE WILLING TO LET THEIR DAUGHTERS BE ABUSED IN THE NAME OF GOD, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN GOD TELLS HER TO MAKE THE KIDS POISONED COOLAID? I AM GLAD THE GOVERNMENT (MINUS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION) IS TRYING TO PROTECT THESE CHILDREN AGAINST SICK PEDOPHILLES.

"Moms drowning their children"? "Make the kids poisoned coolaid" [sic] Where did that come from? There is no evidence of this happening or that it was even likely to happen. Therefore the State of Texas was unjustified in deciding that the children were in "imminent danger." If there were "sick pedophilles" [sic] in the YFZ compound, why didn't the government, (whom you believe will save us from these people who think and act differently than we do), arrest them? Because they weren't any...