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The real counterpoint to Weiss
by Fitzpatrick
+1 Reply

Weiss starts from an assumption that men are miserable, reluctant monogamists. The real counterpoint to this idea is not the parallel reluctance of women, it's the perspective of the happily married man.

I don't feel any temptation to have sex with other women. Sure, other women are sexually attractive in a superficial sense, but I like bonding and mutual affection as much as the physical stimuli of sex. Given the opportunity for "no strings" sex, I'd decline.

Why? Part of it is certainly self-image, honor, and the desire to stick to a promise. But that's really only a little part, and statistically speaking, seems to be too weak to hold back countervailing urges.

Another part is that I don't want to hurt my wife. But again, this is a relatively small part of the motivation to stay monogamous. Weiss claims that he backed off the idea of an open marriage because he couldn't stand the idea of his wife fooling around. I wonder if she was sincere about that offer, or just pulling a lever to squash that notion. If my wife made the same offer as Weiss's, though, I'd decline that, too. Even if she agreed that I could fool around and she wouldn't, I still wouldn't.

The main reason I'm monogamous is that I want to be. I like knowing the person I'm with, better than anyone else knows her, while she knows me better than anyone else. It's a feeling based in love, but extending far beyond the squishy, stomach-flipping excitement of a new romance. Fortunately, the butterflies are lasting and recurring, too, but the bond is something that satisfies a need and desire in me that multiple partners would not. Where else am I going to find that?

I like feeling young, too. Doing new things makes me feel young, being physically fit helps, as do reading new books and plugging in to popular culture. I also like feeling old, wise, experienced, capable, and confident, and I like seeing those traits in my wife, too. Fooling around with a younger woman would probably not make me feel young, at least not in a positive sense. I suspect I'd feel self-conscious and awkward, and kind of like a fraud.

Happily married men don't make many headlines or get much TV airtime, but we are out there. Folks like Weiss might not ever be happily married, and I certainly don't think that everyone can or should or must be to be a good or happy person. Analyses like Weiss's and the XX bloggers' should not, however, overlook the fact that monogamy is not simply a social construct or a compromise based on the competition between men's and women's wiring. It also fulfills a desire and need in both partners, including men.

Lovely post, Fitz.
by bright_virago

Absolutely lovely.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by apropos1

"Analyses like Weiss's and the XX bloggers' should not, however, overlook the fact that monogamy is not simply a social construct or a compromise based on the competition between men's and women's wiring. It also fulfills a desire and need in both partners, including men."

Thanks for offering this point of view. Very well said.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by Zonemind

I'm in the same boat, pretty much. Sounds like you've got a bit of an age lead on me. But I've been monogamous since I got hitched back in the early 90's. It's good stuff, monogamy. I like it.

There was a point about three years in when things got dicey. Left my would-be fling at the bar, unflung, as it were. Went home. Said to my wife, "Look, I almost did something stupid out of sheer frustration. We need to fix this." We did.

For me, monogamy just kicks so much ass.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by TJA

I'm not clear on why you think being happily married and desiring other women are mutually exclusive.

"I don't feel any temptation to have sex with other women."

Really? No temptation at all? That strikes me as pretty odd. Being happily married should have no effect on your attraction to other women. Being totally in love and completely faithful with your wife has no bearing on your natural attraction to women. It may mean that you would never consider cheating and that it isn't even a possibility but how could it not be tempting? To be honest I don't believe you. It simply doesn't seem possible that a healthy man who grows up his entire live being sexually attracted to beautiful women would suddenly have those feelings of attraction evaporate once he is married. I myself am happily married. I am disgustingly happy and know in both my head and my heart that my wife is the perfect fit for me. I have never and will never cheat on her. Still, to say that I don't still find myself attracted to beautiful women would be a lie. Of course I am....and so are you.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by maxo

I've been so deeply in love that I lost desire for other women twice. Unfortunately, in both cases that love was not matched by the lady. The last was really bad because she liked me being that much in love but she fell for a really wealthy guy the second he went after her (like 2 weeks?).

Tried to keep us both. She wanted my love, poems, songs, etc. and his money, ranch, 3500 sq foot house. Of course, his wife was a problem but "the universe had sent her a rich man to take care of her."



Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by TJA
You are better off Maxo. The unfortunate truth is that no man can keep up the full court press for long (flowers, poems, etc.) and eventually she would have had to settle for simple love and devotion....I doubt she would have liked that.
Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by Fitzpatrick

Thanks for your interest, TJA.

I like to choose my words carefully, especially in a long post, and most especially when I'm angling for a mention on the main page (ka-ching!) When I said I don't feel any temptation, that's precisely what I meant.

I didn't say that I feel no "attraction" to other women; in fact, I said that I do find other women attractive - superficially. Nice boobs, great ass, pretty smile, flirtatious glance: no, I'm not dead, any more than you are.

But those things don't tempt me to have sex with those women. The vision of having sex with them does not fuel my fantasies. Any opportunity to do so would not be appealing.

Why won't you cheat on your wife? Seriously, what drives that commitment - the public promise, the fear of losing her, desire not to hurt her? Imagine that this aspect were no longer there - she gives you permission, won't be hurt - would you then have sex with someone else?

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by DelayedKarma

I felt kind of annoyed when I was reading the original post and I had to wonder why, because there is certainly nothing wrong with the sentiment... it is enviable. But then I realized that this was exactly the reason I was annoyed. It's like people who brag about being able to eat anything they want anytime and they never gain weight. I'm just jealous.

I've never acted on it, but it would nice to be rid of the impulse and desire for other women. It's a frusterating impulse and I sometimes have to wonder if it's only lack of opportunity and/or fear of being caught that keeps me from acting on it. It's not an especially pleasant thought, but I suspect it's that way for most men (and maybe women as well). The key is limiting opportunities.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by TJA

"But those things don't tempt me to have sex with those women. The vision of having sex with them does not fuel my fantasies. Any opportunity to do so would not be appealing. "

This is the part I don't get Fitz. You appreciate beautiful women but they don't tempt you? That doesn't make sense to me. To see a great rear end and recognize it as such yet feel no urge to grab it? That's like saying you think hamburgers are delicious but have no interest in eating them. I don't buy it.

"Why won't you cheat on your wife? Seriously, what drives that commitment - the public promise, the fear of losing her, desire not to hurt her? "

That is exactly it. I, like 99% of men in the world, struggle with the temptations and urges to pursue other women but we CHOOSE not to. We choose this because we have one woman in our lives that is more important than any other and we would never hurt her like that. In my mind it is better to acknowledge the struggle and celebrate the strength and character it takes to win that struggle than to deny it exists at all.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by the true conservative

[This is the part I don't get Fitz. You appreciate beautiful women but they don't tempt you? That doesn't make sense to me. To see a great rear end and recognize it as such yet feel no urge to grab it? That's like saying you think hamburgers are delicious but have no interest in eating them. I don't buy it.]

Well, my wife is a bellydancer (ameteur) and when I go to her performances I certainly see plenty of very beautiful women putting on sensual performances. Appreciating beauty does not have to mean, and should not mean, wanting something you should not have.

I can appreciate another man's cool car without being tempted to steal it. I can appreciate art without wishing to buy every piece I see. And I can appreciate beauty in women without being tempted to cheat on my wife.

Why? Because I love her.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by TJA

"Appreciating beauty does not have to mean, and should not mean, wanting something you should not have."

Of course it does! I have never seen a guy drive by in a cool car and NOT said to myself "I wish I had that car". I still can't wrap my head around what you are trying to say. That you like something but don't want it? Wanting something that you shouldn't have isn't wrong. If you have the strength to resist temptation then you are proving you love your wife. Admiting you want what you can't and shouldn't have doesn't mean you love her any less. In fact, it means you love her so much that you are willing to fight an internal battle to stay true to her. If you have no such temptation and don't fight that battle then you aren't really sacrificing much for her are you?

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by the true conservative

[Of course it does! I have never seen a guy drive by in a cool car and NOT said to myself "I wish I had that car". I still can't wrap my head around what you are trying to say. That you like something but don't want it? Wanting something that you shouldn't have isn't wrong.]

It is not illegal, but it is immoral. It's called the 10'th commandment. <link>

[If you have the strength to resist temptation then you are proving you love your wife. Admiting you want what you can't and shouldn't have doesn't mean you love her any less. In fact, it means you love her so much that you are willing to fight an internal battle to stay true to her. If you have no such temptation and don't fight that battle then you aren't really sacrificing much for her are you?]

Well, I'm not saying that I could not be tempted. I certainly could indulge in fantasies about having sex with other women. I'm saying I don't want to.

Re: The real counterpoint to Weiss
by Fitzpatrick

I understand your point that the fact you have to struggle makes fidelity meaningful. I certainly don't condemn you for the struggle. You seem to have a positive view of the situation, unlike Weiss, who thinks he's got handcuffs on his genitals and wishes he could break free.

Ever see a good-looking man? Can you appreciate that a guy is good-looking, but not want to have sex with him? For that matter, how about a beautiful horse?

Myself, I've never had much interest in casual sex. My partner needs to appeal on many different levels, not just the physical, to be interesting. An affair, to be worthwhile in any sense of the word, would mean developing a relationship with the other person. I enjoy forming relationships, i.e. meeting people, but to develop one that is intense and significant enough to want sex would be a lot of work & commitment.

I'm not claiming to be superhuman or holier-than-thou. I have no idea how many others might feel this way. But I don't think that the "constant struggle" model is universal.

Correction . . .
by thelyamhound

Immoral from a Christian perspective. Not universally immoral.

To me, it's foolish to judge a man for his desires, even from a Christian perspective (which holds that we're all fallen, anyway). Better, I should think, to judge him by his actions, and by the degree to which he keeps his word.

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