I am sick of this demand from the right.

How much time does this moron need? How much money? How many troops need to die in a pointless war with no measurable means of determining "victory".

When you talk about letting them fight their own damn civil war the cons come back with a claim that terrorists will win if we leave-a completely bullshite claim-terrorists are not fighting the civil war-they are merely using the chaos as a cover to kill US troops-but the chaos is there with or without the terrorists.

World War II was fought and won in less time and it was GLOBAL. The definition of victory wasnt shrouded, it was clear. No one in the country was unsure of what we were fighting for because the enemy was clear and our mission was clear.

Iraq is more like Vietnam. We have picked one side of a civil war and there is little or no relevence to the safety of the United States involved at all. Bush had to lie to make the threat credible and now we see that Saddam had been beaten down to nothing in the first Gulf War. With Saddam dead, a civil war now exists with no clear front runner.

Like Iraq, Vietnam was NEVER a real threat the USA but there was a fear that if one side of the civil war got into power there might then be a threat, but it was all theory. Interestingly enough, the wrong side won and not only did they not represent a threat to the USA, but they are now doing a ton of business with the USA....so much for the Domino Theory.

The USA cannot be in the business of controlling who runs other countries-this is what EMPIRES do-and is that what we are or what we want to be? We can and should have a strong defense, but this should not be a strategy of controlling other nations and peoples by proxy

Bush declared that he wasnt going to nation build (a politically correct way of saying control who runs other nations). He lied-clearly.

More time? Time is his objective. The more time, the more money being made and the more control he gets of the Iraqi government.

Most Americans realize by now that the real reasons for the Iraq war never were about establishing Democracy there. It is about securing Iraqi oil for US business interests and establishing a permanent base and military presence there. That is why the administration has eluded to the 'Korean model'.

The fact that Bush has come right out and stated that the Iraq war is a problem for the next President to solve speaks volumes.

While I appreciate that most Americans are smart enough to understand that what Bush said and what Bush actually is doing are not the same thing, what I do not understand is the lack of outrage by US citizens.

Many Americans continue to say Bush didnt lie. But if as you say they agree with the reasons of oil and bases, well that isnt what Bush used to get the pro war vote now is it? I call that a lie.

Had Bush gone to congress and said we needed to secure oil and bases so I need a war, then that should be what was being voted on. As I recall it was about WMD and some kind of Al Queida link-both of which turned out to be completely bogus.

I doubt highly Bush would have gotten his war had he told us the truth. Now over 3600 dead US service personnel later, I think we need to evaluate not just ending the war, but asking ourselves if the administration hasnt committed some kind of crime in lying to the congress and the citizens of the United States to achieve objectives which may be sound in the minds of some but was not in fact what was stated as the reasons for this war.

This is not a new phenomenon:

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No, Iraq is not like Vietnam OR like World War II because in both of those wars this country had a draft, which meant there was at least some likelihood for people to actually be directly involved in or affected by the war. I continue to believe that the reason Americans are not rioting in the streets to end this administration's idiotic and incompetent foreign policy is the lack of such likelihood. We can safely sit at home and watch our trash TV with no fear of being actually called to serve in the hellish world Bush has created. He doesn't even have the guts to raise taxes to pay for the debacle, preferring instead to finance it with deficit spending so that possible voters won't be inconvenienced--our children and grandchildren will be paying the costs of this war for years to come.

"Many Americans continue to say Bush didnt lie. But if as you say they agree with the reasons of oil and bases, well that isnt what Bush used to get the pro war vote now is it? I call that a lie."

I did not say that they agree with the reasons. My point is that most Americans realize NOW that the initial reasons given (WMDs, starting a Democracy) where only lies to get us and Congress to go along with this war to begin with.

I agree. Had Bush told the truth he wouldn't have gotten his war for oil barons. His strategy of 'pre-emptive war' should also have been called into question from the beginning.

"Americans are not rioting in the streets" because they don't like to get shot. Go ahead and try rioting in the streets in this day and age and see if you don't at the very least get a rubber bullet in the head.

Don't assume that rubber bullets aren't deadly. That has already been proven false.

Rubber bulletts are in the past.

Now they first get you on video so they can tap your phones and make your life hell with all kinds of stuff.

Then they break up the protest with their new microwave truck which gives you the pain of a second degree burn without a sign of physical evidence, but you sure will run for your life as you feel like you were being burned alive. Be sure to thank your Raytheon friends for this new toy which will be used to make protesting a thing of the past.

Your only option is to write a letter. See how far that gets you.