This is just food for thought.

What if Sen Obama became the Democratic nominee. I keep hearing from a vast majority of my friends, that are democrats, that they will vote for McCain before they vote for Obama, even if Hillary pleads with them not to. I feel that this is a true possibility and was interested in knowing what you guys have to say about that? Is it a possibility that McCain will win, because of Hillary supporters? If that happens what does it mean?

Again, just food for thought and I don't mean to be inflammatory, but as a Hillary supporter, I find myself leaning toward McCain if Obama is the Democratic nominee.

Honestly, I don't think it makes any difference. I've been posting on the Fray sporadically for months, and Hillary supporters have been threatening that all along. I just think you have a different type of person who cares enough to get into arguments on the Fray, and I don't think there are enough people like that in the country at large to have any impact on the general election. I will admit that I would have felt sour grapes too if Hillary had won, and I would also have considered voting for McCain. But most people don't get that wrapped up in it. They will choose from the range of choices presented in the general election, with fresh eyes, and the divisiveness in the primary will seem long ago. My prediction is that people will mostly see Obama as a more attractive candidate than McCain and they won't factor in whether he would also have been more attractive than Hillary.

In short, it just won't seem relevant any more in November.

Which is why I say to all Hillary supporters on the Fray who have been threatening to vote for McCain: go ahead, numbskull. You're a bunch of morons anyway and no one cares who you vote for.

Thanks!

Obama supporters are revolting there is a strong possibility of this occurring. On the other hand they have to ask themselves if a 'feel good' spite vote against Obama is worth knowing that McCain is dedicated to continuing the war, intends to add more red-neck conservative judges to the supreme court and is almost certain to turn a looming and terrible economic recession into an outright depression.

That's a heavy price to pay just to indulge themselves in a spite vote against Obama because Hillary was forced through dirty tactics out of the race.

Now if, on the other hand, they don't want to vote for Obama because he is a radical liberal, well that is understandable. But even so . . . there are the judges and the war and the economy to consider.

At this time I am toying with the notion of simply not voting and letting the chips fall where they may. Considering how insane the Democratic Party seems to be nowadays I am toying with advocating that 'solution' set for all angry Hillary voters is she should step out of the race. Just don't vote and let whatever happens be on the heads of these radical Obamacrats.

That's funny, because I'm hearing that centrists who were leaning toward McCain will vote for Obama if he is the nominee but wouldn't go within 30 feet of HRC for any reason at all.

These even from folks I know in NYC, not just down here in the sticks of North Florida.

I think if you hang out with a lot of HRC supporters and they're angry you're going to hear a lot of that kind of talk and maybe it will scare you all, and make you feel like you're part of a big movement that will destroy the Democratic party.

But, I don't think so. I don't spend my time watching TV or listening to radio or even doing this blogging stuff except that I hurt my back. Mostly what I do is live my life, out in the real world and talk to people. I travel a lot. I do a lot of volunteer work, and I am lucky to have kids in college from California to Florida.

I don't hear that vast anger and rage within the Democratic Party. I hear people who have passionately supported a vigorous primary. Who are excited that the Dems have TWO candidates and that we actually get to talk, think and debate.

This is what THE PEOPLE are saying. Sure, there's disappointment - my sister is very sad that Hil isn't going to be the nominee. But no one, I mean NO ONE in my real life experience is as angry, hateful, vulgar and threatening as the HRC posters in the Slate Frays.

I suggest you guys and gals get off your computers and spend some time with real human beings. It will chill you out and let you feel some of the good going on in the US of A.

So - that's MY food for thought.

Do you know how many times people sounding just like you said that regarding the 2004 race? I mean when people like me told them precisely how and why it would turn out like it did they replied with, "I suggest you guys and gals get off your computers and spend some time with real human beings. It will chill you out and let you feel some of the good going on in the US of A," or equivalent.

It's not enough to mingle with the sweating crowd or the martini sippers you have to also understand people and history and politics and then be ruthlessly honest with your analysis.

Unfortunately people offering the type of advice you just did, fundamentally DO NOT understand people or historical patterns or politics.

Gatewood, don't even bother toying with the notion. These guys totally deserve it. You should withhold your vote from Obama as a way of getting back at Obamacrats on the Fray. That will totally show everyone. I don't see any reason to hold back. Don't show them any mercy, Gatewood. No mercy!

That's a heavy price to pay just to indulge themselves in a spite vote against Obama because Hillary was forced through dirty tactics out of the race.

Well the only thing worrying is how deluded some Clinton supporters such as yourself are if that's actually what you believe.

Hillary will be forced out of the race BECAUSE SHE FUCKING LOST. And she finally ran out of alternate metrics to explain why she really didn't, even though she did.

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If the Hillary fans want to boycott or vote for McCain, I say go right ahead. I'm too old to be drafted by McCain, too rich to care much whether there's ever universal health care, and too male to have my abortion rights taken away. I'm sympathetic to those who care about such things, but the ones who would be hurt most by a McCain candidacy would be the ones who are mad at Obama merely for beating Hillary fair and square.

So fuck em.

Obama '08

Unfortunately people offering the type of advice you just did, fundamentally DO NOT understand people or historical patterns or politics.

Jesus, you are just one great big sack of gas.

ANYONE, democrat or republican, that would vote for McCain (over anybody) can't have any kids of draftable age!

always correct in these things and people like you never, ever, learn. So it goes.

Gatewood, clearly you are "correct in these thing", as Obama is already the nominee and has been since Texas. Sure the media played along with Clinton, but everyone who can do math knew it was over after Texas. Now even the media can't pretend otherwise. Sadly, Clinton (and the media) feed false hopes of Clinton supporters, so I can understand disappointment.

Now, if you and other voters choose not to vote for Obama, he will lose, just as Clinton would have lost had she been the nominee if she didn't have Obama's supporters. But I don't believe for one minute that Clinton supporters will cut off their noses to spite their faces. The vast majority of her supporters are too smart for that, they won't vote for a continuation of the war, the possibility of overturning Roe vs. Wade, more jobs outsourced, the same corporate influence, privatized social security, and continuning increases in health care expense. If they do, they aren't a real Democrat. It's the platform issues we should be discussing, not this trival stuff. We should be rallying around our nominee, whoever that is. Republicans have defeated Democrats in the past through divisiveness, are YOU going to let them do it again. If so, you aren't nearly as bright as you seem.

Gatewood:

always correct in these things and people like you never, ever, learn. So it goes.

Yeah, I'm not so sure that someone who thought Hillary Clinton was going to be the next president of the United States can claim to be "nearly always correct in these things." I don't know though ... maybe your predictive record is much better in City Council races.

Dear Concern Troll,

"I keep hearing from a vast majority of my friends, that are democrats, that they will vote for McCain before they vote for Obama"

Seems to me you have pretty horrible taste in friends, if the vast majority of them are willing to suffer another 4 years of Republican mismanagement for no good reason.

LMoE