Currently I'm finishing up my B.S. in Adult Education, which required 2 internship stints (did one with S.D.P.D. and the other with a local college). I'm starting grad school in the fall, which also requires 3 internships (1 a year long with a local high school district and 2 more next year, one with a middle school and the other an elementary school, I'm going for a M.A. in Counseling)

Most people don't realize that there's multiple sources of funding for these internships, thus some pay more than others, even for the same job. For instance, for my fall internship I'm going to be on a team of 4 people, but I (a woman) will be making more than the other 3 (2 women and a man) because the source of the funding for my position (team leader) is different than the other 3. My grad school could only pay for 3 of the internship positions and the max they can pay is $7.50 an hour. However, the high school district can pay up to $11.50 an hour for a "casual worker" position. Since I'm the team leader and I was chosen for the higher pay. We'll all be doing the same job, basically, but the origin of funds differed.

So, I would ask what program his internship was under and if they have different schools. When I worked with the police, half my pay came from the city training funds, the other half from my school. The amount per student received is often set by the regents, and that, rather than gender, is likely what is causing the pay discrepancy. There are also other programs, such as in California the CalWorks program, which supplements income for those who are on welfare but working towards becoming self sufficient. If he is a single dad, or he and his wife earn below the poverty line combined, then they would qualify for subsidized employment. This is usually only a dollar or two more, which again would make up the difference here.

Finally, as others pointed out, he may have simply bargained better when applying. Often with internships you negotiate the terms, much like a regular job. Some people simply settle for less than others. Regardless, her internship already looks successful, as she's getting an education in how the real world works.

This is good info, Sit Crazy.

An internship is an opportunity not just to learn a job but learn something about work culture and political reality. If you're paying to learn decide what the better investment of your time is.

If it's a proven fact that this fellow is indeed earning more for the same that's unfortunate but for all the reasons so articulately enumerated here: I would ask myself if I want to spend my summer doing a gender bias study? Or being the eye rolling topic of the weekly HR meeting? No. However, it's never too early to have a non accusatory rational and professional conversation about compensation.

In fact there is no conclusive reason presented here for the disparity. LW assumes it's because she' a girl. I think back to the horror on this forum last week when a youngster got the "put up or shut up answer" about his allegedly embarrassing mother. This is an ideal example of how in spite of the hand wringing insistence on not letting a kid know their place on the food chain, life has a way of doing that anyway.

My experience is that gender equity is indeed here in corps everywhere, they may be shielding the office dinosaurs from it, but it's here. Greylodge succinctly pointed out that no one incurs fine, legal fees, unbudgeted retro pay and bad publicity for $40 a week. That being said, any HR pro who can save a buck an hour on an dime a dozen intern will do it.

What women, like me are often slow to learn if ever, that to succeed at work you need to learn to assess the lay of the land, anticipate what's going to be needed next in your industry and workplace and set goals. Learn to make decisions that serve your own interests ( I have worked with tons of women and (this used to be me ) that were so busy slaying what they thought were the workplace dragons they didn't realize that they just made it safe for Joe-new guy to walk into the executive office. What do you want to be ? Successful or Office Mommy? Make strategic alliances, look for opportunities to get notice and approval from decision makers and for crying out loud, don't feel bad about it.

Oh, and lying about one's rate of pay is rampant. Even nice honest people for some inexplicable reason will feel that a dollar one way or another will affect your esteem of them. Just like for some crazy reason saying you're 38 makes you think you still sound glamorous ,energetic and sexually viable and 41 sounds like stretch pants.

Life is not fair. Work is not fair. It's a game. If you play to lose, you will. Suck it up and if you're going nowhere, move on. When you bang your head against the wall, it doesn't hurt the wall.

Right, so basically your advice is everyone for themselves? I thought women were going to change the workplace? Aren't you just as selfish as the people you criticize? You'd just sell your coworkers out for a bucK?

idaho:

Right, so basically your advice is everyone for themselves?

I don't know if that was her advice, but its mine.

It's just suck up with your "strategic alliances" and get ahead and to hell with the problems?

idaho:

It's just suck up with your "strategic alliances" and get ahead and to hell with the problems?

Every strategic alliance I ever partipated in benefitted everyone but me. In male dominated fields, there really is no "kinder softer nation". You can be nice and be helpful, and you'll be appreciated and even get decent to good reviews. However, thay won't translate into bucks. I can't afford to try to improve the world anymore. I've done my windmill tilting; now I'll leave it to my children and their peers to continue the fight.

idaho:

Right, so basically your advice is everyone for themselves? I thought women were going to change the workplace? Aren't you just as selfish as the people you criticize? You'd just sell your coworkers out for a bucK?

Erm, she really wasn't criticizing anyone, just elaborating on how the world works in terms of the workplace. The feminists from years past may have claimed that they were going to "change the workplace", but I haven't seen anyone in this particular part of the thread carrying that banner. The response has been more along the template of "this is how the system works, and this is how you get ahead."

So what if she wants to be selfish? Looking out for yourself and making your own way is what men have been doing for years, why not women? If Jane Doe executive can play the game as well as the boys, why condemn her for it?

I think you all may work in harsher fields than I do. I am the second to last person hired at my level, in my department. I was the first to be promoted to the next level. I am still the highest paid person at my new level now that everybody has been bumped up. I know that is the truth because I saw the paperwork.

Why? My boss told me when she promoted me "thanks for being such a positive person that I wanted to put you here".

No backstabbing / alliances / etc required :P

SusanM:

I think you all may work in harsher fields than I do. I am the second to last person hired at my level, in my department. I was the first to be promoted to the next level. I am still the highest paid person at my new level now that everybody has been bumped up. I know that is the truth because I saw the paperwork.

Why? My boss told me when she promoted me "thanks for being such a positive person that I wanted to put you here".

No backstabbing / alliances / etc required :P

Exactly as it should be. In most of the companies I have either worked for directly or done work for under contract, the majority of mid-level management was female. This wasn't the result of affirmative action. It was the result of women typically working harder thinking they had to work twice as hard to get half the credit. In other words, they earned the positiions. They often got paid less than men with equal credentials and responsibilities too, but only when seniority factored into it. A semi-competent asst. mgr. who has been with the firm for 25 uninterrupted years is going to make more than even a super-competent asst. mgr. who was with the company for five years, then quit for eight and has now been back for 12. No matter how you calculate such things he has at least 50% more time in with the company - and on the job - than she has and that has to factor in. Employees who don't get a raise once a year, even if only a cost-of-living adjustment - don't stay with a company. They go find a job with a more enlightened - and less tight-fisted - employer.

Does this constitute "institutional sexism"? Sure... according to many prominent feminists, if only because men should be taking as much time out of work as women for child-rearing. But the truth is most women would prefer to be the one staying home with the kids. I am only too well aware of the howls this comment will elicit from the P.C. Police, but dammit, I've over a half century on this planet and have raaised children (and steps, and nieces and nephews and, undoubtedly, eventually grandbabies.It's fucking true, just like women working harder is true and I'll be damned if I'll pretend otherwise because we're not supposed to admit that particular truth. Hell, I would rather stay home and play with the kids. Indeed, if I hadn't loved what I do for a living so much and hated arguing with women even more, I'd have insisted on getting my share of the housespouse time when they were little.

More power to you, I say. I always admired and respected a strong woman - or man. Of course, I have the advantage of coming from a long line of fiercely independent, higly competent, overachieving women. My matrilinial family tree is swarming with them. Work harder and you deserve the money. Work longer and you also deserve a little something. Juggle your career and professional life as you see fit and please spare us all the endless recriminations and regrets after the fact. You make the choices you make... and then you get to live with the consequences.It is highly unlikely that there is actually any sexist patriarcal conspiracy left alive in the wild - and even less likely that anyone younger than 50 has any direct experiece of it. Lower pay is real but it has real reaons that have nothing whatever to do with sexism.

What I was very longwindedly saying was - don't use your internship to incubate a festering greivance about this. It will waste your time and possibly set up a career long habit of being side tracked into the doings of the grumblers club. I have seen too many women who believe that until some perceived overriding condition can be ameliorated, they can't get anywhere.

Having said that I am ferociously opposed to telling young women to either put up with lower pay or dammit march into that office and have a showdown! These are the same young women who write the letters that say; my fiance is a wonderful, intelligent caring guy but....; I've been dating my boyfriend for 4 month and I know he love me but he can't commit. Is it time for an ultimatum?

Learn early on to discuss money with your boss like an adult.

I have seen too many women who believe that until some perceived overriding condition can be ameliorated, they can't get anywhere.

Sorry, doesn't the employer owe a worker conditions in which they can succeed? Isn't that an employers duty? What if it's not a perceived condition, but an actual one.

Yeah, I don't work in harsh workplaces at all either. I've been everything from a business consultant to a college professor. I've been both under and overpaid. I don't think it has as much to do with gender as the media and other agitators want to think.

I also think that the best way to change the world is to know what you want, go for it and get it. Stop demanding everyone concede to you. Stop trying to force compliance. If you honestly believe that your company is refusing to promote you because of your gender, go work somewhere else. This is how competition between businesses work, isn't it?

As for 'changing the world' for other women, I think that is a bogus idea, and has done more to hold us back than any other factor out there. Let it go, already. I don't need your help in suceeding in my chosen goals, and neither will my daughter.

SusanM:

My boss told me when she promoted me "thanks for being such a positive person that I wanted to put you here".

The difference may be having a female boss. Although, when I've had one in the past, she was much worse and less understanding than almost any male boss I've had. But she did pay me for a holiday after 60 days, instead of the requisite 90, because my performance far outpaced any of coworkers beginning in my second week, by about 60% tangible output on average.

idaho:

I have seen too many women who believe that until some perceived overriding condition can be ameliorated, they can't get anywhere.

Sorry, doesn't the employer owe a worker conditions in which they can succeed? Isn't that an employers duty? What if it's not a perceived condition, but an actual one.

The key work here is "perceived." For instance some women believe that since men (like women) will sometimes discuss projects in the restroom, that women are being cut out of the loop and only being given what the men didn't want. Yes, men may have a few extra moments to discuss ideas with the boss that women don't have.

However, the typical woman has stronger verbal skills than the typical man. Therefore, women may make better use of the minutes they do have with the boss. They can often state their cases more cleaarly than the men can, and in a shorter time. Women (like men) can also write down their proposals and submit them to the boss, so he can consider them in his own time.

However, the ones who think "it's not fair!" that male colleagues have the (necessarily male) boss' ear in the restroom - even when he doesn't want to give it - would insist on unisex bathrooms or something, to eliminate the perceived unfairness. Alternately, they just give up any hope of success, because of the loss of those few moments. And that also assumes that the men go to the same restroom at the same time as the boss, and that the boss even wants to hear about work when he's otherwise occupied.

It amazing how difficult a professional positve attitude is to come by sometimes. ( I'm not counting the chicks with teddy bears in their cubicles.....). Stay out of the grumblers club, analyze the problem, model a solution. Oh and so called bad situations are often very fluid and ideal time to bypass the clique of complainers and move up. (Giving them more to complain about :)