I am one the many volunteers opposing the initiative in CA. We saw a number of abuses in the collection of signatures of registered voters. First, the initiative campaign was sufficiently well-funded by wealthy (mainly Catholic) conservatives. Many came from the San Diego area like Doug Manchester who gave at least $125K to the signature gathering effort (precipitating a boycott of his hotel in San Diego). The initiatives proponents had a war chest in the millions, enough to hire hundreds of professional signature gatherers state-wide. You can always spot these folks by their tables and clipboards with numerous petitions. Because they are paid up to $3 per signature, and paid at the end of the day in cash, the PSG profession can attract people with dubious ethics. We saw PSGs "moving" (copying) signatures and misrepresenting to people what they were signing e.g. "Do you support gay marriage?" ... "Yes" ..."Well, sign here." They also used verbal and physical threats and harassment to intimidate those of us who volunteered to collect signatures in favor of same-sex marriage (we like to call it "marriage equality.") It was not surprising when we heard that 2 PSGs in Sacramento after calling the police to get rid of our volunteers at a shopping center were arrested for a Florida homicide.

The second major problem with this initiative is that the checking of signatures is not at all transparent and is based on a cursory sampling technique. It is very likely that the signatures would not stand up to proper scrutiny but the policy intent is to support a process giving people the right to vote and is not likely to become more rigorous very soon.

After the June Primary we volunteers will hit the streets to oppose the initiative. The CA Supreme Court decision has incredibly energized the LGBT community and our allies. It would be surprising if the Catholic Church and their proxies like Manchester, the evangelicals and conservative Republicans did not enter the battle on the other side with even more millions of dollars. Besides merely weighing in on the fray, you might consider volunteering or making a directed contribution to the organizations who are leading the fight for our equality such as Equality California, The Human Rights Campaign or the ACLU. We are hoping to build our own war chest of $15M.

Well, I'm hopeing the ballot initiative passes, so we can get past all this endless BS about homosexual marriage, important to only the tiniest of minorities.

The funny thing about civil rights is that if you don't look out for those that are important to others (even the tiniest of minorities), it's quite possible that no one will be looking out for your's when the time comes.

gatonegro333 wrote: "The funny thing about civil rights is that if you don't look out for those that are important to others (even the tiniest of minorities), it's quite possible that no one will be looking out for your's when the time comes."

So true. Its also critical that such rights not be subject to referendum, especially during an era when a fearful electorate, largely illiterate, can be easily manipulated to sell out those they are prejudiced against.

Referendums should only be used for choices like:

"Build a school here or there"

Not

"I don't like some people so let's take away their rights"

or

"I'm a right wing Republican scum who doesn't want to pay taxes but still wants everything the government currently gives me so cut my taxes and take the services away from the less influencial"

California has been ruined and driven deeply into debt by such plebicites.

blueskies:

Well, I'm hopeing the ballot initiative passes, so we can get past all this endless BS about homosexual marriage, important to only the tiniest of minorities.

I'm sorry but even the "tiniest of minorities" should not be denied civil rights and studies show that approximately 10% of the population is gay. I'm guessing the number may be much higher among conservative republican legislators and fundamentalist ministers.

Here's what a Christian minister had to say in pre WWII Germany. His words are just as powerful today as they were then:

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

This is all petty distractions from real issues.

Does legality stop the polygamists?? Does it stop heterosexual couples who have whats known as 'common law' marriages?

Here, imo, is the real story....

the bigger picture is different than we imagine

<link>

Behind the Veil of The Bush & Clinton Years

Exploring a Layer of Lies

By Tony Brasunas

Bulldog, while the slightest flaw is still a flaw, and ought to be fixed sometime, homosexuals really are not suffering over what is primarily a intellectual and social issue. There is no priority on this, it's primarily a distraction from real issues.

People entered into marriages long before there was any government. Legality seems not to stop the polygamists. Or stop heterosexual couples who have whats known later , if they last long enough, as 'common law' marriages?

Here, imo, is the real story....

the bigger picture is different than we imagine

<link>

Behind the Veil of The Bush & Clinton Years

Exploring a Layer of Lies

By Tony Brasunas

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

How could I forget the American Homosexual Holocaust? You have truly moved me with your hyperbolic appeal to my emotion. Also, a puppy!

Not really suffering???!!!

What the hell is that about?: You mean that the lack of access to the benefits that some 2000+ laws grant, among them co-parenting rights, surviver benefit rights, ability to make terminal healthcare decistions, even access to the person in a critical care situation are not issues that when denied cause suffering?

What a fucked view of the world.

And if anyone is making Gay Rights an issue to distract, it sure isn't the Dems. They are not using this rallying cry in their stump speaches. But GOP candidates. candidates YOU blueskies ostensibly support are.

Get a fucking grip

Yeah Degsme, they are not really suffering. I do have a grip. It's all intellectual angst, Calif. has Civil Unions, so ITS ALL ABOUT THE NAME, the word, the word 'Marriage".

degsme:

Not really suffering???!!!

What the hell is that about?: You mean that the lack of access to the benefits that some 2000+ laws grant, among them co-parenting rights, surviver benefit rights, ability to make terminal healthcare decistions, even access to the person in a critical care situation are not issues that when denied cause suffering?

What a fucked view of the world.

And if anyone is making Gay Rights an issue to distract, it sure isn't the Dems. They are not using this rallying cry in their stump speaches. But GOP candidates. candidates YOU blueskies ostensibly support are.

Get a fucking grip

Why not read what I write, and not read into it or project your preconceptions on it.

Of course it's the Republicans useing it as a distraction. But I do not excuse the Democrats. They are no good either, just different from the Republicans.

<link>

" . . . important to only the tinest miniority" So WHY all the effort to restrict the their rights? Why should women and black vote? They are a "minority", and what about those Native Americans! Why can't they stay on the Rez and just work in the Casino instead of FREELY moving around OUR country!!!

The Group crys out that same sex marrigae is a "threat to marriges" . . .It may have had an effect on say Larry Craig, Congressman Schrock, Rep Jim Kolbe, Mark Foley, Ted Haggart, Karl Rove's dad, all may have marriages "issues" but it happened in States that do not endorse "same sex marriage" . . . funny, for over the years my gay friends and relatives have had NO impact on my own 27 year marriage or any marriage I personally know of, but have added greatly to the quality of our lives with love and friendship.

Most of that link is simply factually wrong. For example

The majority of Americans no longer affiliate with either party. Indeed, a near majority no longer votes at all.

Is simply factually wrong on both counts. Its true that in the Bush 2004 election the percentage of voters was barely above 50% for the age-eligible voters, but when you subtract out those who are foreign nationals or otherwise ineligible to register to vote, the turnout was closer to 60%. Furthermore Indies only make up about 30% of the electorate.. The numbers just don't add up.

BTW Civil Unions do not accomplish everything that marriage does, precisely because some of the laws still explicitly refer to "a married couple" - and it would simply take too long for the lege to go through and re-write every of the multi thousand laws.