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Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by Gatewood
+3/-1 Reply

swing voter, a swing voter! Oh, to be a swing voter, a swing vo . . . oh wait a minute, I AM a swing voter. Hmmmmm . . .

Let's see now . . . Obama's problem is that anyone that cares to know who and what McCain is and how he thinks, and pretty much what he will do and why he will do it, needs merely examine his massive political record and compare it to his massive archive of public utterances.

McCain's problem is that Obama essentially has no meaningful political record and mostly just gives inspirational speeches on hope that are filled with promises.

Now this should work in Obama's favor since he can make any reasonable sounding claim and no one can prove -- based on his record -- that he may not really mean it. but McCain's plausible deniability surrogates can also make claims regarding Obama's likely activities that cannot be disproved as long as they are reasonably in the ball park of activities and thought patterns normally credited to Far Left liberals; which is how Obama is going to be painted.

Now McCain has got problems with his political record, because we can see that he swings toward the moderate [conservatives would call it liberal] form of the republican ideology as a matter of preference, but in order to further his career [or to be seen as a good conservative soldier--take your choice there] he will swing hard right when he deems it necessary. Left to his own choices he usually picks the moderate's answer set. Backed into a Party corner he swings hard right. Can one say 'ideological and policy flip-flopper?' Ouch!

So now we come to the people who will decide this election, which are the independent minded swing voters, the currently 'disgusted with McCain' conservatives within the Republican Party, and those millions of democrats currently pissed off at the way the press and the DNC have been trying to make Obama the Party's nominee.

I shan't predict how that's going to work out, because everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion [except mine] is based on unfounded wishful thinking. Heh, heh!

Via the GOP's cadre of seasoned propaganda professionals, backed by their political think tanks and using both stealth and above board media outlets, the GOP is probably going to be successful in painting Obama as an irresponsible liberal that goes through life with a well meaning heart and a head filled with nothing more than wishful thinking.

If, the GOP can be equally successful at pulling together as a unified Party then they can pretty much paint John McCain as a conservative leaning moderate, and therefore more balanced and reasonable in his outlook than was G.W. Bush. They will point out [falsely] that this gives the nation the best of all worlds, someone with stable and balanced moderate tendencies that has a conservative failsafe when life's scary problems arise.

Obama, on the other hand, as they will [successfully] point out is an inexperienced and clueless wimp in comparison whether or not this remotely approaches the truth.

John McCain has that calm and reasonable father figure image all mapped out while, Obama is still too young looking to carry that off. Obama can ostensibly carry off the image-hype of being a uniter and [if he can reunite an enraged half of the Democratic Party] he can potentially prove that he is the real deal in that respect.

The key to the foreign policy political battle though is if McCain can 'prove' to people that he actually understands and values the concepts of diplomacy and compromise [this man that is famous in the Congress for doing precisely that on a routine basis], while keeping faith with conservatives that he is a kick ass sort of warrior. Not an easy balancing act!

Obama, on the other hand has to convince people that he is 'tough enough and rooted enough in reality' NOT to give away the nation's best interests abroad in a liberal orgy of appeasement. Oh dear!

So what will middle America, the mainstream; what will the mainstream believe and do with this barrage of conflicting information and images and outright propaganda barrages filled with lies and distortions? Meanwhile the economy is tanking and there is still no solution in sight for an Afghanistan and Iraq War Venture settlement. What will they do? What they always do! They will go with their guts on election day.

Right now I think the odds favor John McCain despite his association with this disaster of a president; G.W. Bush. But I don't believe that they strongly favor McCain.

Obama has the gift of bullshit on his side, the ability to make otherwise intelligent people believe in his 'we can love people into loving one another' and 'things will automatically work out for the best if we just believe that it will' brain rot nonsense. He delivers the equivalent of spiritual and emotional cocaine and people believe him; no . . . they believe in him.

That's some powerful stuff that Obama can utilize at will. Put that way I now think that Obama cannot lose. See how this works? This race is going to be just that close and so when all else is equal in a political contest the wise analyst looks beneath the surface to examine the weaponry on hand.

Have I used the term 'oh dear'? Well, let's go with that again, oh dear! Which [as always] political organization has the better propagandist corps? Which ones understand the nuances of dirty tricks politics on a visceral basis? The GOP.

Which Party, on the other hand, habitually stumbles through these political contests like drunken sailors on liberty, trying things at random and in possession of all the group discipline of a cluster of cats? Which Party habitually underestimates the effectiveness of organized propaganda and so repeatedly gets blindsided by it and watches their candidate's initial popularity gradually sink through the floor while they stand around wringing their hands, wondering what the hell they can do? The DNC.

Oh my!

Re: Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by Ashputtle

Check out this video on Bill O'Reilly about two Clinton supporters (females) who will defect from the democratic party and vote opposition (if it comes to that, said one!)

They say they represent thousands, if not millions who WILL NOT SUPPORT the OBAMA candidacy if he is the Nominee in the G.E.

So...the battle is beginning to shape up the "bunker mentalities" even as we speak, six months before the G.E.

That means there will be LOTS of emotional heat and firestorms that may not be doused out by the "kumbaya" crowd and the attempts to croak about "uniting for the good of the party", when in fact the DNC has betrayed so many.

Also..check out my top post here <link>

and check out the Karl Rove video clip in which he makes the assessment of the caucuses and what the results may imply as to delegates, voters in caucuses versus primaries...etc.

Rove knows his stuff...

Re: Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by entj4sure

Great analysis, except that you base it on past history. That in itself is usually a safe stance to take, but this year it appears that making such assumptions is faulty logic. In the past any presidential candidate who had endured what Obama has with the Rev. Wright issue, and the media 24/7 bashing for weeks on end, could not have won one single primary afterwards, and his popularity would have plummeted. In the past the swiftboat style ads that the RNC ran against Dems recently in the south would have worked, they did not and those seats in Congress went to Dems.

Your analysis is based on the DNC's ineptness of the past, and one can't argue with that. However, It appears that they may have learned from their mistakes, or perhaps it is nothing more than that the political climate is so bad for Republicans right now that nothing they can do will save them.

The political landscape is changing, and being reshaped. Progressive Republicans are switching to the Democrat Party, conservative Democrats are switching to the Republican Party, and many from both parties (Lou Dobbs fans, no doubt) are switching to the Independent Party.

My point is that to make assumptions about politics in the 21st century, based on political play in the 20th century, is the mistake that Republicans are making right now. History doesn't always repeat itself.


Thanks Ashputtle, I'll
by Gatewood
look all this over a little later. I have to shut down the posting now and run some errands.
Re: Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by entj4sure

Ashputtle,

Rove is a crook, but if that is someone you admire, go ahead and get his autograph now...he may end up in prison soon.

As to all of those female Clinton supporters who will vote for McCain, these are not feminists. The feminists will vote for Obama, plain and simple. He may not have been their choice, but they WILL vote for him. Why? Because they will do everything in their power to make sure that Roe vs. Wade is not overturned by the appointment of conservative judges.

All of my friends, all strong feminists who fought the battle, were divided among their support. The majority did vote for Clinton, but in discussions with them I can assure you that they will now be voting for Obama. We all worked too hard for safe, legal abortions, and we aren't about to cut off our noses to spite our faces...not when the health and safety of all American women is what is at stake.

I can't speak for those women who are not feminists, but I feel I can speak for those who are, especially older women, we will not have Roe vs. Wade overturned! Our daughters, granddaughters, and great-granddaughters lives may depend on it.


Re: Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by Leo Harold

Thank you for thinking and getting the McCain/Obama battle rightly focused on the SCOTUS.

RvW is definitely under attack and I think the Roberts court is going to try to vote on it before any new justices are named.

I think as far as SCOTUS decisions go, the Ledbetter v Goodyear case should be hung around the GOPigs.If this is the kind of protection women can expect from this court, you had best register for a handgun permit, as much as I hate that idea.

McCain will be buried in Nov so long as BO is not buried before Nov.That is my greatest fear.

Leo Harold

Re: Oh, to be a swing voter, a
by atanos

I do find it hard to believe that Clinton supporters would go completely against the party and vote for McCain out of spite, despite what the polls suggest. They may say that now in the heat of the moment, but come November, I think the worst they will do is simply stay home.

Like the original post in the thread says, the real challenge for Obama will be the swing voters. I count myself as one. Though I think I'm leaning toward Obama, McCain is a welcome alternative. For the first time in a while, I am not afraid of the outcome of the general election. 2004 was a nightmare! I actually voted for McCain in Michigan's primary since I wasn't allowed to vote for Obama. From the beginning, this was my dream matchup, and I look forward to the two candidates wooing me all summer long.

Help is on the way !...
by Spandex

Fear not!

HELP IS ON THE WAY !

Many there are who agree with you on your content about Obama, but they will go on step further and actually prevent him from becoming the Potus-Elect.

The bunkers of the mind are being built full speed ahead and the only thought now among so many of the anti-Obamites is to eliminate his political ability in any arena...and that means not just in Illinois and Congress , but nationally.

See other people's thoughts below:

====================

Comment by JoeCHI | 2008-05-16 11:17:14

This November:

1. A write-in vote for Clinton, IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA

2. A vote for nobody, IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA

3. A vote for McCain, IS A VOTE FOR CLINTON

4. Repeat. A Vote for McCain IS A VOTE FOR CLINTON.

Because:

1. If Obama wins in the fall, Hillary will never be President and her and Bill are sent out to pasture as the Democratic party becomes the party of the Obamas.

2. If Obama loses in the fall, Hillary becomes the de facto leader of the Democratic party and presumptive nominee in 2012. Obama fades into the sunset politically.

Will you allow the likes of the DNC, MSNBC, et al. to take away your vote, or will you take material steps to re-take control of your party and your country?

It’s up to you!

Reply to this comment

Comment by John | 2008-05-16 11:54:11

I dont exactly agree with your second point-as much as I would love to see President Hillary Clinton, I think that if she doesn’t make it this year, she never will- but I think the rest of your message is spot on.

If Obama is the nominee, it’s not just important that he lose, but that he lose so badly that he is never taken seriously as a national figure again.

[Wild applause !!! ]

Remember that John Kerry was gearing up to run again before his “joke” about Bush was twisted into a smear against the troops.

We can’t afford that again- we have to make sure that this is the first AND last year that Obama is a Presidential candidate or any kind of political candidate.

And we need to sink the DNC, Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Brazile, Kennedy, Leahy, etc and those other assholes so that they don't ever have a litter-box to stand in.

to Gatewood,
by Lunesta
I haven't been able to be on Fray today until now, so will look forward to enjoying your on-point/pointed bon mots over the weekend. Also, I've been thinking about what you wrote yesterday about your previous positions & postings on other Frays over the years and am wondering dare I ask -- if I use the phrase "Be well" to you, or 'prie dieu,' do those mean anything to you? It is my fervent hope that they might. Be well, in any case, Lunes T a ...
Today's Politics column... should be
by Lunesta

this post of yours. Excellent analysis, sharp & on-point -- dare we say you have 'gouged' the DNC's vulnerable soft side with your rapier?

Your last two paragraphs say it ALL, dear Gatewood -- I hope you have saved them & will repeat them as we move along towards (Dem.) electoral disaster this highly critical and unamusing campaign year. "Be well," Lunes T a. (see other post to you, today, thanks.)

Gatewood's MO
by Olive & Ouzo & Figgy

Lunesta:

I hope you will rejoin the discussion on the Why Hillary's Making History thread when you get a chance. In Gatewood's most recent post there, Gatewood appears to be relatively forthcoming about Gatewood's MO, and I think it would be interesting to both Gatewood's fans and Gatewood's critics.

I'm being a bit sarcastic here, but that is directed at Gatewood, not at you. Thanks.

Hah, hah! Yes Tempo you have
by Gatewood

figured out my posting identity. But please do not announce it to the various frays, particularly not to the BOTF. I am not really any of those three former posting identities anymore as I am now posting for different reasons and with different goals in mind.

I had forgotten about that one identity, by the way; but then I hadn't ever really felt comfortable posting under that name.

As you will recall I am a purist at heart and as far as purity goes in the posting venues I really only felt that three identities really fit me. The original 'C' identity and then the even more famous or infamous 'H' identity, and now -- almost to my surprise -- the Gatewood identity.

Anyway dear, let's keep this old poster's identity-secrets between us old trench fighting buddies, okay?

Love and respect from 'H'.

Yes, you have figured out
by Gatewood

my former posting identity, my dear; but please keep it between us.

I really do change personalities to some extent when I shift nics and Gatewood fits who and what I am as a poster in the here and now. I am at least as fond of the name as I was comfortable posting as 'C' or even 'H'.

The thing is that I don't really want the BOTF posters to know that I have returned and this is because I really am no longer the famous or infamous 'C' or 'H' that most of them recall.

It's pretty much the same with Fritz. He is no longer really Yukon anymore is he, not in the way that he posts or thinks?

Anyway, it's good to say 'hello' to you. Out of all the people I missed on these Fray boards, I missed you the most and this is because you are utterly sincere and a truly beautiful human being.

Re: Yes, you have figured out
by BlueDolphin

Ah.

When Cinderella was posting a long long time ago on BallotBox...seems like eons..

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