I believe I can speak for the buddies when I say they already know when "the new girl" is trying to get one of their circle to distance himself. Camaraderie is very important to men, and of greater importance when those bonds have lasted since youth. The beau may not know his friends see the engenue's wishes, but the friends will speak when she makes a move. Understand that just being accepted by such a long-standing, tightly-knit circle is a compliment, but as soon as the friends feel an untested, short-term bond is causing an interruption, they will harass the man until the issue is buried or discarded. When family is of little importance, friends become more of a family than a real family. If a man is distanced from such friendships, he may also cease to be the man for whom the woman fell. If you can't take the compliment, and can't understand the bonds, move on quietly and without incident.

Speaking from personal experience. Chances are, the guy's a bit clueless about her wanting a "real date" night out. All she needs to say is "Hey, I love your friends, but I'd really love to spend a night out with just you." Or maybe even suggest a private dinner together when they can meet the guys out later.

Absolutely right. The guy in the middle of it all is usually clueless.

Amazing disclosure about the underhanded motives of buddies and pitfalls regarding his lack of family.

"...but as soon as the friends feel an untested, short-term bond is causing an interruption, they will harass the man until the issue is buried or discarded. "

Lots of women when they become involved in a new relationship foresake their previous close friendships for a short time while they get to know the guy better. This enables them to decide if he's worth the investment.

Too bad you cannot view the potential for your friend as anything other than short term and threatening. I'm sure he appreciates you saving him from the love of his life. What a great friend you are.

Good Lord, the guy sounds like a chump and a loser who needs to strike out on his own with his girl. There ain't no reason to shuffle off and hide alone together forever and ever, but come on, when 5 guys chaparone your dates its time to fly the coop.

I have to ask, where are all his friends' girlfriends?

I see this sort of situation often, except it is usually the woman who wants to make all her friends part of the relationship (a la Sex in the City).

Obviously this can go too extremes, but the opposite approach, where the parties are expected to cut out their long-standing non-romantic relationships because they are now in a love affair seems like a bigger problem to me.

I know someone in that kind of relationship. And I have to say, I have known many guys who have held on to their high school friends and honestly, most of them are still about the same level of maturity as they were in high school.

She should know what she is getting into before it starts. She will NEVER be free of these people. Ever. If that is ok with her, great. If not, leave. Don't try to 'change' him because you can't. You are dealing with someone with a mentality of a high schooler.

For about every time my fiancee and I go out on a "date" we're equally as likely to go alone as with a group of our friends. It works pretty well, we get our personal time without our friends feeling like they aren't important to us anymore

Statistically, I believe men are far more likely to women to lack meaningful friendships that can serve as an emotional support network -- a factor that has often been cited in explaining a host of emotional issues for which men seem less able to weather than do women, who are much more likely to have such a support network.

But, if we actually wish to hold onto our close relationships, we are acting immaturly -- while my wife does not get the same reaction when she maintains her close relationship with her best friend from high school, 30+ years ago.

I guess the answer is that once we get into a relationship, we are just supposed to adopt our wives'/girlfriends' circle of friends.

She could be the jealous type that hangs all over him like a 3rd limb for fear of anyone else touching him, and shoots the female of the group dirty looks every time she even speaks to him. Let alone sitting next to him in a booth, or patting him on the back to congratulate him for anything. All the while complaining to him behind their backs how it makes her feel like he's putting his friends above her and how much he hurts her every time it happens. Once she's broken his connections with this group of friends the REAL manipulation begins!

I find it interesting that none of the other friends bring along their mates.

Thom,

I don't expect my SO's to adopt my friends if they don't like them and I also don't expect my friends to adopt my SO's, and my SO's are not so selfish that they feel they can dictate who my friends are. Its all in the balance and understanding that we can't like everyone our SO's associate with or identify as friends.

Its all in the balance and where you sit them at formal functions.

people who hold onto their high school friends tend to have the maturity of high schoolers? that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

maybe your high school friends were losers and burnouts, but mine happened to be smart, interesting, successful people... the same type of people I'd make friends with today. same goes for my boyfriend, who's known his best friend since 9th grade. holding on to high school friendships is only a bad idea if you had terrible taste and judgment as a high schooler.

I don't expect to like all hubby's friends, either, nor he mine. However, friends are more important to some people, particularly if they have no close family. My niece is in a relationship like the one described. However, she has stuck it out, learned the inside jokes, and been fully included by the group. If her boyfriend were to dump her now, they'd likely knock him on the head!

And some of that group may already be couples, which was conveniently or editorially omitted from this letter.