Your boyfriend is not the sharpest pencil in the box. Sorry, but somebody needs to tell you. I'd dump him and take up golf.

Obviously, she isn't the sharpest tool, either. She sits and listens to her family discuss politics that she doesn't agree with, never tells them she doesn't agree and then holds it against them by whining to others. Whether she were republican or democrat, that is immature and foolish.

The fact that she has never told her family about her beliefs also makes me wonder how strong they actually are, or if she is one of these people that change her beliefs based on the crowd (or boyfriend) she has at the time. I have little respect for such people. I have more for people who admit that they have no interest in a subject (like politics), acknowledge that they really don't have any rational beliefs on the subject, and leave the discussion to those who actually have something to say.

But that's not America. We all want to be heard- no matter how stupid what we have to say is. (Hence why all these non competition reality shows are popular.... The Hills? Big Brother? I'm talking to YOU!)

I've spent 22 years as the lone democrat in my husband's fiercely republican family. Every thanksgiving I have to hear insults about every democratic candidate. It would be ok if these had some point, but they are more along the lines of "all democrats are idiots". It is impossible to have a discussion since there IS no discussion, just insults.

I have finally adopted the tactic of ignoring the conversations and leaving the table as quickly as politely possible. Sometimes I sit at the "children's table".

Trust me, this is the only strategy that works.

I would like to add that the recent Bush collapse has made family get togethers much more pleasant.

The former Bush triumphalists have become much quieter and tend to avoid political talk entirely.

AHHHHHHHH!

deduction:

Obviously, she isn't the sharpest tool, either. She sits and listens to her family discuss politics that she doesn't agree with, never tells them she doesn't agree and then holds it against them by whining to others. Whether she were republican or democrat, that is immature and foolish.

She's a teenager - so she's probably immature and foolish. Often comes with the territory. Aside from that - it doesn't sound like there is a discussion as much as contest to see who can deliver the best one liner at the expense of the GOP. I don't think it is fair to say she's unintelligent to not tell her family about her political beliefs - it seems like it is sparing her untold mocking at their hands.

deduction:

The fact that she has never told her family about her beliefs also makes me wonder how strong they actually are, or if she is one of these people that change her beliefs based on the crowd (or boyfriend) she has at the time. I have little respect for such people. I have more for people who admit that they have no interest in a subject (like politics), acknowledge that they really don't have any rational beliefs on the subject, and leave the discussion to those who actually have something to say.

It's certainly possible that her beliefs aren't that strong - but after the jokes her family as made at her BF's expense, I don't think it is the only possible explanation. A lot of people don't tell their parents that they have different beliefs, values, preferences until after they move out. I'm not going to call any of them cowardly for doing so - it seems practical. (Especially so in this case - as her family seems to be mean spirited about the whole thing...) She isn't going to change any minds at this point - so why go through that now?

Oh good heavens, she is a teenager. Give her and her a break. If your parents are Yellow-Dog Democrats, what better way to rebel than to become a young Republican.

It is quite possible that one of the main reasons that I became a Democrat was a vain attempt to annoy my father. Actually, he likes arguing so this was completely ineffective. By arguing with me, however, he taught me valuable lessons, that I had ideas worth debating, how to critically examine and defend my ideology, that some conservative ideas are not crazy, and that life is much more complex than it seemed. In retrospect, most of what I believed at 15 was silly bumper-sticker liberalism at best.

I feel sorry for this young women. If her family's idea of political discouse is to insult her b/f, then she will miss the opportunity to learn about the rationale and logic behind liberal philosophy.

I thought Prudie was spot on. A round or two with the debate squad would force her to examine and learn to defend her beliefs. I might add that spending some time volunteering with Habitat for Humanity or a local soup kitchen would provide an opportunity to see whether her beliefs could survive serious real-world challenges.

nancyh:

I might add that spending some time volunteering with Habitat for Humanity or a local soup kitchen would provide an opportunity to see whether her beliefs could survive serious real-world challenges.

Please tell me that I'm not taking this the right way. Are you really saying that if she identifies with the Republican party that volunteering will somehow change her mind? Does that mean that once you see those less fortunate and selflessly give of yourself that it will "cure" you from being Republican?

I wouldn't necessarily call myself Republican. I try to stick to the issues and stay true to my own beliefs versus going along with what the "party" tells me to think. But at the same time, I am so frustrated with the holier than thou liberal Democrat viewpoint!

If you identify with the Republicans why does that automatically make you a selfish fat cat? Why didn't the Republican party die off years ago then? The number of truly wealthy are so few that there has to be more to it than that.

I'm on the board of our local children's museum and I've seen more charity and generosity (with time AND money) from those grossly rich (and Republican) than the average joe that brushes me off when I ask for local volunteers.

Why didn't the Republican party die off years ago then? The number of truly wealthy are so few that there has to be more to it than that.

While I agree with you that the idea that charity work would change this girl's ideology is very simplistic and illogical, i would like to answer the above question.

Because the political party system has less to do with the policies that each party puts in place and more to do with what spin each party puts on its policies. Countless folks have pointed out that many (recent) past republican policies have not been to the benefit of the working class person, yet still they support the republican party out of loyalty (well, my family's always voted such and such), or because they believe the family values hype, or because they play to their insecurities in regards to people of other races, immigrants, sexuality, moral philosophy, religion, etc...

Dems also try and attract people with their spin on being the party that cares about the environment, civil liberties, and so on.

As I've said, I think the party system itself is divisive inherently and most people are not willing to be objective enough to look at each issue separately and instead will resort to us vs. them politics.

No. I am simply saying that it is important to test your beliefs. Most 15 year olds feel awfully sure of themselves with very little experience or data to back that up. It may very well be that after volunteering, she might become more sure of how she believes or she may find out that what she thought she knew was wrong, or (the most likely scenario), she might find out that the world is a little more complicated than she originally thought.

I am proud to call myself a liberal, not because I think that liberals have all the answers, nor because I think that conservatives are the root of all evil (and in fact conservatives are right about some things), but because all that I have seen, read, and heard have convinced me that on balance, liberals have better answers than conservatives.

I would argue that the liberals that you are so annoyed with are probably those who have had little experience in the real world (the liberal version of the LW) and thus have a very superficial understanding of the complexities of life.

not that she has to tell her parents everything she believes. i don't tell my parents everything i believe (well, for the most part i do). But i also don't complain about it! As far as we know, the family doesn't consider it mean-spirited because they don't know she feels differently. Saying, "please don't talk about politics or about my boyfriend- you are hurting my feelings or making me uncomfortable blah blah blah" shouldn't be that big of a hardship unless her family are completely inconsiderate a-holes. And she didn't say that they were as far gone as all that. I think if you don't have the chutzpah to make such a request, you probably are too immature to be having a boyfriend as well.

I believe in trying to make people stronger and not trying to coddle them and protect them from life. I don't think that behooves them at all. I don't know that the girl herself is unintelligent, but it's not a smart move to have expectations from your family, be disappointed in those expectations to the point where you are complaining about them to others and not say anything. Are they just supposed to magically know they are hurting her feelings? If they are that insensitive and wants it to stop, then she has to be proactive about it. Or else learn to deal with it and shut up about it. Either way, I think mid to late teens is a fine time to be learning such a thing.

No nancy, what frustrates me is the holier than thou drivel such as this . . .

deduction:

Countless folks have pointed out that many (recent) past republican policies have not been to the benefit of the working class person, yet still they support the republican party out of loyalty (well, my family's always voted such and such), or because they believe the family values hype, or because they play to their insecurities in regards to people of other races, immigrants, sexuality, moral philosophy, religion, etc...

Dems also try and attract people with their spin on being the party that cares about the environment, civil liberties, and so on.

If you are a Republican you are either racist, homophobic, or too dumb to stand up to your parents.

is sanctimonious people who try and say that they look at everything objectively and then go to all my posts and put words in my mouth. i said no such thing, danam. you are being dishonest. period.

I spoke more about the republicans because that was what YOUR post was about. if you want to go more depth with the democratic side, let's go there. will it make you feel better? really it seems more like you just want to dump on liberals too than to actually be objective about it. Would it make you feel better if I used the word insecurity with the Dems too? Does it change something for you? (i don't see it. it just seems like a petty waste of time but here goes a little for you).

Dems play to insecurities of American guilt- for wealth, health, etc.., to paranoia about a fascist state- which leads to a backlash of ultrapermissiveness (i.e. freedom), blah blah blah....

I mean, I don't know what you are looking to have me say, danam. I don't see how to be more equitable than i have been. i don't know what your issue is unless you are being dishonest in your posts. You fail to explain why I am the focus of your holier than thou campaign. I didn't sign on to be the poster child and see nothing in re-reading my posts that calls for it. Unless you have something new to bring to the table, I have nothing more to discuss with you.

Seriously, for all of the people that bash any political party on whatever beliefs the media feeds you, please, for the love of God, open a history book. Then, and maybe then, you can actually have an intellectual conversation about what you're actually talking about.

Republican beliefs, Democrat beliefs, ...nobody on this board has shown they know diddly squat about either party and what they stand for.