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The oppressed have become the oppressors.
by progressivebulldog
+1 Reply

Jewish people have been oppressed for a very long time. They have been the victims of the Spanish Inquisition, Nazi Germany and Russian pogroms among others. Since they have been a minority and often a wealthy one it is not surprising that they have been targets by those who need to find a scapegoat for the failings of their own state.

It's not surprising that the Jewish people would want at least one place where they were not an oppressed minority and certainly it made sense that this "homeland" would be in what was their homeland prior to the diaspora. There was only one problem with this, Palestinian Arabs were already there.

Whose claim should be given more weight? Those whose ancestors lived in this area nearly 2000 years ago or those living there now? The Israeli government has acted very badly. They often bomb whole neighborhoods to "get" one suspected terrorists. They used the abduction of two Israeli soldiers as an excuse to invade Lebanon. They have put a wall up and control access from Palestinaian farmers who travel through daily.

I am very sympathetic to the Jewish people who have been oppressed but is this an excuse to oppress others simply because they were on the land where Israel wanted their homeland?

Re: The oppressed have become the oppressors.
by endorendil

The Israeli Jews fulfilled Hitler's wet dream: not only did they agree with him that Jews don't belong in Europe (or anywhere but Israel), but they proved to be as ruthless, immoral and violent as he pretended them to be. It's such a shame.

I actually am not that pessimistic about the issue. A single state (NOT Israel) for Arabs and Jews, with right of return (or compensation) and ACTUAL freedom of religion and lack of racial preference is still the only way forward (and it has been - obviously so - since the first intifada). I believe that if a workable solution is offered to Israelis and Palestinians, they will jump on it, isolating the extremist elements on both sides.

Re: The oppressed have become the oppressors.
by Meeinstein2

Are you really sympathetic to the Jewish people? There is not and never was a nation called Palestine. Prior to 1967, the inhabitants of the West Bank were Jordanians living under Jordanian rule. The same is true for Gaza which was part of Egypt under Anwar Sadat. It was when the Jews returned to Jerusalem that the Arab leaders removed the star from the Jordanian Flag and proclaimed they were all Palestinians.

Hamas and Hezbollah, and Fatah use neighborhoods as a shield to launch their missiles. That Isreal sends back missiles to the point of origin is understandable and only shows the inherent brutality of the terrorists to risk the neighborhoods to retaliation. Why not fire them from the hills, away from innocents?

The walls are to control the flow of arms and terrorist bombers. Stop the violence and I'll bet the walls come down.

Re: The oppressed have become the oppressors.
by Little Neck

I agree with you 100%! I am Jewish, and I am deeply ashamed of some of the things the Israelis have done. It's so sad. Would you believe it....in Hebrew school, they told us that in Israel, the Arabs that the israelis captured were treated SO WELL, that they didn't want to go back to their Arab homelands after they were released? A barefaced lie...then and now!

The "Wall" built around the Arab areas of Jerusaslem makes me think of another "Wall", the "Wall" in the Warsaw Ghetto! Hasn't this crossed the minds of any Israelis, too? Aren't they the least bit ashamed?

The Israelis are treating the Arabs like the Americans treated the Native Americans....only worse. The Americans wanted the Native Americans to become part of their new contry, and to forget their ancestal ways. But the Israelis think only that all the Jews in other countries should come to live in Isarel, and that the Israeli Arabs should to live in (ther own?) Arab countries. (Another incredible thing taught to me in Hebrew School!)

Sadly, the Isarelis seem to be emulating the Pilgrims coming to the US, only not fully realizing it....or caring about it, if they do. The Pilgrims came to the US, in search of religious freedom. But once they got here, they denyied religious freedom to anyone else....and also anyone in their gorup who didn't "toe" their religious line!

Intrangience is intrangience, and inequality is inequality, wherever it rears its ugly head. The Israeli super-zelots really don't think they are doing anything wrong.....after all, Gid gtave the land of Israel to the Jews, didn't He? Even if this were so....nothing can justify treating fellow human-beings like pieces of garbage, or worse! Face it Israelis....most people do NOT like living under a theocracy, Jewish or otherwise. It's easy to see why 3 times as many people leave Israel as emigrate to it. And it's very easy to see why the teehn-age Russian Skinheads demonstrated last year. They were protesting being forced to go to synagogue, being forced to go into the army, being forced to give up their gentle and secular celebration of Christmas, etc.!

An American Jewish radio host, RON KOOBIE, related, on the "Curtis and Koobie Show", that he himself had once wanted to make "aliyah" and go live in Israel. But he made the horrendous mistake of bieng nice to some Arabas he met. Permission to enter and live in Israel denied! Whatever happened to Hillel's admonition, "Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you?" (Yes, yes, Hillel, who lived before Jesus, said it before Jessus did. OK. So....now, Israelis, follow Hillel's words. Please!!!!!!)

Israel is strong, it has fervent, idealistic people. But the laws there are unfair to anyone who isn't Jewish. If Israel were a TRUE democracy....as it is always telling others it is....then there woudl be no discrimination agains t Arabs there. For shame, Israel! You are turnning a Land of Milk and Honey, into one of Guilt (for Jews) and Fear, (for non-HJews!) This is NOT the utopia early settlers dreampt of Remeber RACHEL COREY, and THE U.S.S. LIBERTY! For shame, Israel! All you need do is live up to the visions of true equality for everyone, which at least some of your own earliest settlers had dreams of turning into reality!

Spainish Empire, not USA, is Israel analog
by blueskies

Do not try to compare the United States to Israel. If you must have a New World analogy, it's the Spanish.

The colonies that later integrated into the USA were all founded on land bought or otherwise legitimately traded for, with good alliances made with neighboring (native american) states.

Now, a lot of people love to distort US and colonial history in order to air their anti caucasian bigotry and racism, or preference for some splinter group that became absorbed. I suggest to readers here to do their own research, and come to their own conclusions, once you become aware of the whole truth, and not just what the racists and anti caucasian bigots say.o

Re: Spainish Empire, not USA, is Israel analog
by Little Neck

Israel says it is a democracy. The USA is definitely a democracy. "Democracy" means, "the people rule". Spain has only very, very recently become a democracy -- under the Constitutional Monarchu of King Juan Carlos....who, before he became king, was in the unpleasant and unpalatable position of saying "yes" to everything dictator Francisco Franco said, as the older dictator prepared the younger royal to take his place...and rule as Franco had...or so Franco thought! Poor Juan Carlos must have seethed inside....but he bit his tongue, outwardly agreed with everything Franco said.....and planned for his people's eventual freedom. Talk about a brave patriot! But it paid off, and today Spain is a Consititutional Monarchy of the best kind. But for centuries, and centuries before this, Spain was certainly NOT a democracy. (Spanish Inquisition....expulsion of Jews....etc.)

If Israel says it is a democracy, it should be democratic. It should let ALL it's people have an equal chance to be heard in the Israeli "Knesset", and in daily Israeli life. But Israel treats it's Arab citizens as far less than equal than its Jewish citizens, and gives it's Christian citizens far less freedom to practice Christianity, openly and with ceremony, than it celebrates even the most minor of Jewish holidays.

This is because Israel proclaims itself not only a "democracy", but a "Jewish State". This seems to mean that Jews are, and Judaism is, primary in Israel, and all other peoples and religions are only tole4ated, at best. But I have also heard the USA described by some as a "Christian Country"....and I shudder to think what the USA would be like, if it was run as the type of "Christian Country", that the majority in Israel, seems more and more to want to run Israel as a "Jewish Country". Both of these theocratic extremes, if put into practice, would necessarily NOT be democracies.....for the minorities, (Jewish and Arab in the theoretical totally "Christian" country of the USA, and Christians and Arabs in the theoretical totally "Jewish" state of Israel), would certainly have very little voice in what happens in these hopefully-never-to-be mainly theocratic states!

To repeat, "Democracy" means "the PEOPLE rule". And "Theocracy" means "the RELIGION" rules. Unless ALL the people, of no matter what faiths, have an EQUAL voice in their country's affairs, you can not have a true "Democracy". Today, even the Vatican treats it's Jewish citizens better than Israel treats its Arab citizens. Because of this, the Vatican comes far closer to being a "theocratic democracy" than Israel ever will, if it continues on it's present path of honouring only Jews and Judaism,and treating other peoplles and religions, with at best a smarmish "accomodation", and at worst, out and out bigotry!

If Israel insists on calling itself a "Democracy", and if it wants other countries to consider it to BE a "Democracy"......Israel had better start acting like a "Democracy"....a place where ALL people living there have a right to equal treatment, under law and custom!

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