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Can Israel Survive 4 Another 60 years?
by Little Neck
+1 Reply

You forget nother "categories" of Jewish people who don't care...or wish they didn't have to..... Israel is, after all, a FOREIGN COUNTRY, if one does not live there. I know, I know....everyone in the USA has an "old country"....so why not be proud of Israel being your "old country" if you are Jewish?

One good reason is, there is no other group in the USA that I know of, some of whose members are always telling others to move back to the "old country". What other immigrant group in the USA is continually being told, by their leaders, that they are "in exile"? In the movie, The Ten Commandments, a line went, "Blood makes poor mortar". Well, Jewish leaders....I would also say that "Guilt makes poor alegiance!"

I mean, what is a normal, happily-assimilated American-Jewish, (notice I put 'American' first!) person to do? Anti-semites want you to get out of the USA, so it can be safe for "pure" white people. Overly-religious Christians, (who are NOT necessairly anti-semites), want you to get out of the USA because doing so would co-inside with their ideas of things that will happen when Jesus' Second Coming' arrives. ( Please note, dear overly-religious Christians, that "the Jews havng their own land" does not necessarily mean all Jews have to, (or even want to) go there! Just having the land is enough to fulfill the prophesy, I think!) And then, of course, there are the "Super-Semitic" Jews who want EVERY Jew to go to Israel....and out of the horrible 'galut' or diasphora! Israel is a real country again, they argue....to be a real Jew,. you have to go and live there!

Well, I'm glad Israel is a country.....because it's very existance helps fend off anti-semitism. But I don't like what's happened to it: it's become less of a Utopia, and more of a "theocratic monstrosity", if you ask me. Besides, I LIKE living in the USA! I LIKE Halloween, and have a continuing case of "Christmas Envy"....which is bitter-sweet, to be sure....but better than living in Israel, where Christmas is kept totally in tiny house-parties, (no public Christmas celebration allowed to anyone -- even Christian citizens of Israel! And the "Gregorian" New Year is likewise not allowed to be celebrated....too close to the celebration of Christmas, you see! Contrast that to the good ol' USA....where at least a token effort is made, every year, to show Chanuka, (and Kwaanza), as well as Christmas, to be an important religious holiday, (too!) Freedom of Religion in the US also can mean "freedom from religion"....we try very hard, here, to celebrate our diversities, and to give each group of people honour and respect. I really do wish the Israelis would do the same....for Moslems and Christians living in Israel!

I could go on. The intragegence of Israeli's ruling class....the rabbis, the Orthodox, eats into people's lives, and makes them want to leave. Guilt-mongering at leaing Israel tugs at the hearts of would-be emigres out.....but the fact is three times as many people leave Israel as migrate to it. And no wonder! It appears, to many, that they have left anti-semitic tyranny, only to find super-semitic tyranny! ( No wonder the young, teen-aged Russian immigrants dressed as skin-heads last year, and demonstrated! They are youngsters, and moved to Israel, mostly at their parents' behest. But many of them -- and perhaps many of their parents too -- did not like the Jewish Theocracy that they found there.

Give me the USA....with it's diversity, it's very hard trying to include all traditions in honour and respect. It allows even a little Jewish girl to dream of following in Grace Kelly's footsteps....and why not? The "American Dream" is for the ambitious, the daring.....those that want to, individually, make something of themselves! The "Israeli Dream" is for those who honour hoary tradition above individualism, and who want to force every person, (especially every Jewish person), to think in their way.

As I said to begin with, Israel to me is a foreign country. And it is becoming more and more foreign every day! I'm glad Israel exists.....as an "out" for God forbid, any future Holocaust, I only wish it existed as an egalitarian state, a true democracy, as it always boasts it is. Until Israelis are alllowed to celebrate Kwaanza, (and Christmas, and the "Gregorian" New Year), with as much respect and honour as is now given to Chanuaka, it can never be a real democracy, in my opinion.

No, I cannot forget thee, Oh, Jerusalem. I only wish you were a little more of the egalitarian Utopia, of which the first settlers to YOUR country, once dreampt.

Re: Can Israel Survive 4 Another 60 years?
by Little Neck

ADDENDUM: ( SECOND THOUGHTS......)

Since being able to post this message, (of thoughts which have been tearing up my brain since childhood), and having been given a proud " +1" by Slate's editors, ( thanks, editors! ), I have been inspired to write further thoughts on
this subject, ( "Carrots" DO get more results than "sticks"! )

When one is a child, it's very, very difficult to speak up against "all-knowing" adults. And -- one thinks ALL adults think the same way, At least I did. Case in point: My parents "observed" the "laws" of kashruth. We had separate dishes for meat and dairy, and another set, (just one...made of glass...which should have told me something), for Passover. My father said the "kiddush" every night. My mother lit candles. They both came from big families, the members of which sll did the same things.....

So, when, in Hebrew school, my teacher asked the rhetorical, -- but still totally astounding question, (astounding to me, anyway), - "....If Israel and the United States went to war, what side would you be on????" ( ! ), I didn't dare complain of, or discuss, this question with my parents -- figuring that they'd probably side with the Hebrew school teacher's probable answer, and I'd be in for hours and hours of lectures as to why Israel should be primary in my heart and mind. So, naturally, I kept quiet. Didn't say a thing about this to my parents, or anyone else, (except my sister, who was in the same class.) It burned me up inside. I couldn't understand how anyone could ask such a question. If Israel and America are both democracies, and are allies, I reasoned, how could they ever go to war against each other? Did the Hebrew school teacher know things she didn't want to -- or didn't have to -- explain? Not being able to discuss this with anyone, as I said, burnt me up inside. For years, anmd years, and years......

Complicating this was the fact that -- like any normal American girl -- I dreampt of marrying a real, live Prince. An HRH. I mean, another American girl -- Grace Kelly -- had done this....so why NOT me? The US Constitution says that "All Men, (and presumably, Women, too), Are Created Equal".....so, if I'm equal to Grace Kelly, why shouldn't I have my chance at meeting and marrying an HRH, too?

I soon came to realize, however, that though there are Catholic Princes, and Protestant Princes, and Moslem Princes....there are NO extant Jewish Princes! Rich Jews...yes. But who gets preference -- the rich person, or the HRH? Like any red-blooded American, I wanted -- and still want -- nothing but the very BEST for myself, and those I love.

Unrealistic? Why? As long as there are monarchies in the world, why shouldn't I be allowed to dream of meeting and marrying "Mr. Right HRH"? Are not all men, (and women), created equal? But then Hebrew School teachings busted me up again: we were taught that ancient Israel had kings ONLY because the ancient Israelites, (foolishly) said, "We want to be like other peoples, and have a king." But the only real king, (for Jews, anyway), is God.

Another stumbling block to my dreams, taught to me in Hebrew school, was that most non-Jews are anti-semites. And the richer and more powerful a non-Jew was, the more likely he or she was to be anti-Semitic!

Of course, the fact that royalty usually marries only itself, (up until that time, anyway), was another stumbling block -- but it was the only stumbling block for non-Jewish girls. Why did I need all the other stumbling blocks? I was terrified of anti-semitism, of course -- and also knew that there are NO Jewish HRH's in the world. And -- along with all this -- there were the anti-establishment "flower children" and "hippie" movements going on amongst my contemporaries. I desperately wanted to be like other people of my age...but I disagreed with everything they stood for! I wanted to be PART of the establishment! I wanted to go to the very TOP of the establishment! Unlike the common idea of that time...that if you wanted money, you were a secret "Simon Legree", I only wanted money -- and power -- to make sure others didn't hurt me....NOT so I could hurt anyone else! I even bought -- but hid -- a book from my father, (and everyone else) -- which I didn't know then was a classic. It was "Think And Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill!

Our Hebrew School teacher liked the hippies. She said they were Jews and non-Jews who, with their communes and anti-(American) establishment ways, were copying and emulating the "kibbutzim" in Israel. Again, I hated every word she said. Again, though, I kept quiet, and let her words tear -- and tear -- me up inside.

Last year, I found out the incident of the "USS Liberty", and how it wa fired upon, and disabled, by planes belonging to their " ally ", the USA ( !) I suppose this incident -- which happened whilst I was in Hebrew school -- may have been the catalyst to give the Hebrew school teacher the "chutzpah" to ask her rhetorical question. I also found out -- about five years ago -- that the same Hebrew school teacher's mentioning that, in Israel, the Arab prisoners are so well-treated that they don't want to go back to their Arab homelands, after they are released, isn't true -- just the opposite is! ( If Israel were smart, it would treat it's Arab prisoners in just the way the Hebrew school teacher said.... This would gain Israel sympathy and respect -- as treating an ememy well is a difficult thing to do --and shame the Arab countries, (who presumably presently torture their Israeli prisoners as badly as Israel presently does its Arab prisoners) in the eyes of the world. But Israel continues, (stupidly, in my opinion), to outrage the world by its horrendous treatment of its prisoners, and that is a true shame....in more ways than one!

Israel is an intrangegent country....and is becoming more and more so as the years go on. A relative-by-marriage of mine -- born in Turkey, who migrated to Israel with his family as a teen-ager, and who migrated to Canada, when he met my aunt - related this story to me. Some American Jews wanted to help Israel. They wanted to do this by setting up steel-making plants throughout the country. This heavy industry could not but help Israel's economy, they argued. But their proposal -- offered in the best of faith, for the most altrustic of purposes -- was swiftly turned down. Why? Because the most expensive part of running any steel-making plant is firing up the furnaces. If the plants were to be built in Israel, they would have to be shut down, and re-opened, every single week, because no power of any kind is allowed in Israel on the Sabbath! The Americans sadly left. Loving Israel is one thing. Going bankrupt is another!

I mentioned to my uncle-by-marriage that a compromise could have been reached. Why not, I asked, keep the furnaces running all year -- but shut them down twice a year, in reverance and acknowledgement to obeying Jewish Law? My uncle's response? "Is it a Jewish country, or isn't it?"

That's the crux of the matter, I think. CAN Israel survive for another 60 years? Yes. But it will survive as an increasingly intrangegent, orthodox state. Already, I have read, the "Jewish Skinhead Rebellion" of last year, has made Israeli politicians re-think the "law of Return". It may now only include those Jews who think as Israelis do -- or like Israelis should -- and not "rebellious" types. Also -- there was once a "Moderate" polical party in Israel. It no longer exists...it's members, presumably, opting either to leave the country, or to become more orthodox and conservative.

Hopefully, some reason, some type of pluralism, will remain. One bright spot I have read of is this: up until very, very recently, the Israel goverment collected taxes even on reparations given to Holocaust victims. It no longer does.

I realize now that I should have mentioned the question the Hebrew school teacher rhetorically asked, ("If Israel and the USA went to war, what side would you be on?") with my parents. Yes, they kept kosher. Yes, they had separate sets of dishes. Yes, my father said "kiddush" and my mother lit candles. But -- unlike my cousins -- my sister and I had both ballet lessons, and piano lessons, on Saturday. My father bought a book -- "What is a Jew?" -- because he was always uncertain of it. Later on, I learnt that he wanted to change his name, "Abraham", to "Arthur"....and did! But that he had to change it back again, because his brothers and sisters used "Arthur" fasceiously, in taunting manner. My father was never comfortable with his Judaism, though he tried to be as Jewish as he could. He loved the USA and the freedom it provided. This conflict caused him to develop an ulcer, (none of his brother and sisters developed one), which -- thoough it kept him out of WWII, later developed into cancer, and killed him at age 64. Not that he wanted to be 4F. He reported to the barracks. He stayed there several weeks. But my grandmother came to the barracks, and said: "You can't take my son, he has an ulcer." Xrays proved this true. My dad didn't think a "mere" ulcer should have kept him out of the army. But the army did. I call him "The Bravest 4F in the Army"....because he was.

About 4 years ago, I finally was able to ask my mom that rhetorical question with which the Hebrew school teacher had (unknowingly?) caused me so much torture.

"You should be on the side of the United States", she said.

And I agree. At this point, I'd be a spy for the USA, if this happened, and if I could.

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