Some reservations about Hitchens' thoughtful article:

Miami and Israel at 60 - 60 is almost retirement age for a person, but it is young for a nation. Nothing absurd about Israel at 60 and we are not retiring, just as the USA is over 200 years old. When Mozart was your age, he was dead 200 years.

Jerusalem and god on our side - Christopher Hitchens perhaps forgot that in the prestate Israel of the Yishuv, there was a Jewish community in the old city of Jerusalem that had been there for hundreds of years. My grandmothers were born there. My great grandparents were part of the "old Yishuv" that had existed in Palestine continuously, and of the Jerusalem community that had existed for hundreds of years. Jewish life in Jerusalem was interrupted for 20 years by the ethnic cleansing that took place in 1948 - all the Jews were unceremoniously removed by the Jordan Legion, with the tacit approval of just about everyone. But that period of 20 years is just a tiny dot in history. The old city of Jerusalem has more right to be part of Israel than Tel Aviv, which was founded in 1909. In the prestate Yishuv, there was also a Hebrew university in Mt Scopus. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Jerusalem has been the focus of Jewish national aspirations for 3000 years - nonstop. God may or may not see fit to rebuild the temple, that is his business. However, Jerusalem was the capital of the Jewish State when Washington DC was a swamp and London and Paris were wildernesses inhabited by barbarians. Zion is a place in Jerusalem and another name for Jerusalem. We should not take the "Zion" out of Zionism just to suit the whimsy of people who think Muhammad flew to Jerusalem and tied up his horse at the wailing wall. Hitchens, of all people, should not base his arguments on theological myths and their revival by the Nazi Grand Mufti. Before the Zionist return to Israel, Jerusalem was a neglected dump. It was never the capital of any entity except the Jewish state and the Christian Crusader State. The world will not accept that the Jewish people have really returned to our patrimony until they accept that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism - It is impossible to divorce these two, because the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state. Why is this people different from all other peoples? Theology and Zionism - Everyone who is anti-Zionist "blames" Zionism on their favorite bugaboos. Communists make believe it was allied to fascist movements, and atheists confuse it with religious claims. True, some Zionist precursors were religious, and there were and are religious Zionists. However, Herzl, Pinsker and Hess were not religious and their ideology was not based on ancient prophecies, but on the realities of Jewish culture and a correct understanding of historical trends. Their desire for Jewish culture made them turn away from assimilation. Correct analysis of European society showed that acceptance of the Jews and assimilation was impossible unless the Jews had a state. Sure American Jews can assimilate eventually, just as Scottish Americans and Greek and Italian Americans can assimilate. But Scottish and Greek and Italian and Irish etc. Americans can earn the respect of others as equals that is needed to assimilate because they have an "old country" that is really theirs by right. Jews did not have that "old country" before Israel existed. Of course, Israel needs to make concessions for peace and of course Israel needs to be defended as a part of the West, but the West must make up its mind that the superstitious curse of Eusebius is over and one with, and that there is no longer a taboo on Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem. If god doesn't come into the equation, then what is the objection to Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem? (we can discuss the borders of Jerusalem as a separate issue).

The question for the USA and Europe may be whether, if they do not stand up to extremist lunacy, there will be a USA as we know it in 60 years? Can Europe survive another 60 years? Probably, but not necessarily as secular democracies. If they don't stand up to the nut cases, perhaps they will be part of a Caliphate.

Ami Isseroff Zionism & Israel

"... the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state. Why is this people different from all other peoples?"

What does deserving have to do with it? States exist because people made them exist -- either through violence or guile. States are lost the same way. At one point, Jews had a kingdom, they lost that kingdom and were ruled by foreign powers (of course, to the Canaanites, the Hebrews were a foreign power). Did they "deserve" to lose the kingdom? Did they "deserve" to have it in the first place? Does the United States "deserve" it's state? It's grotesque level of wealth and influence? How about the Kurds? Do they "deserve" a state? The Scots don't actually have a state, being subsumed in the UK -- just a form of home rule. Am I anti-Scot for being okay with that?

No state "deserves" to exist, except by virtue of the fact that it does exist.

Or rather, Zionist propaganda. As usual, the Jews can do no wrong, but are only wronged by others. And only others are "extremists."

This is particularly absurd and dishonest:

Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism - It is impossible to divorce these two, because the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state.

In fact, anti-Semitism is an unreasonable hatred or resentment of Jewish PEOPLE. Anti-Zionism only indicates dislike or disagreement with the principles of Zionism, a race-and-religion-oriented doctrine that pretends that ancient residence in a place gives one a permanent deed to it. It says nothing about Jews being "inferior" as a people, only that states are not reserved to a people and a location forever.

Let Israel solve its own problems. The U.S. made a grave error when we hitched the wagon of our Middle East diplomacy to the Zionist state. And that error has cost us years of grief.

Time to put all Middle Eastern nations on the same footing, and stop playing favorites. Ask not what we can do for Israel, but what Israel can do for us...for a change.

I wonder why there is so much anti-semitic filings in the world, no just today but almost from pre-historic times, you guys should think about it. By the way, I'm not anti-semitic.

Ami Isseroff:

Some reservations about Hitchens' thoughtful article:

Miami and Israel at 60 - 60 is almost retirement age for a person, but it is young for a nation. Nothing absurd about Israel at 60 and we are not retiring, just as the USA is over 200 years old. When Mozart was your age, he was dead 200 years.

Jerusalem and god on our side - Christopher Hitchens perhaps forgot that in the prestate Israel of the Yishuv, there was a Jewish community in the old city of Jerusalem that had been there for hundreds of years. My grandmothers were born there. My great grandparents were part of the "old Yishuv" that had existed in Palestine continuously, and of the Jerusalem community that had existed for hundreds of years. Jewish life in Jerusalem was interrupted for 20 years by the ethnic cleansing that took place in 1948 - all the Jews were unceremoniously removed by the Jordan Legion, with the tacit approval of just about everyone. But that period of 20 years is just a tiny dot in history. The old city of Jerusalem has more right to be part of Israel than Tel Aviv, which was founded in 1909. In the prestate Yishuv, there was also a Hebrew university in Mt Scopus. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Jerusalem has been the focus of Jewish national aspirations for 3000 years - nonstop. God may or may not see fit to rebuild the temple, that is his business. However, Jerusalem was the capital of the Jewish State when Washington DC was a swamp and London and Paris were wildernesses inhabited by barbarians. Zion is a place in Jerusalem and another name for Jerusalem. We should not take the "Zion" out of Zionism just to suit the whimsy of people who think Muhammad flew to Jerusalem and tied up his horse at the wailing wall. Hitchens, of all people, should not base his arguments on theological myths and their revival by the Nazi Grand Mufti. Before the Zionist return to Israel, Jerusalem was a neglected dump. It was never the capital of any entity except the Jewish state and the Christian Crusader State. The world will not accept that the Jewish people have really returned to our patrimony until they accept that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism - It is impossible to divorce these two, because the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state. Why is this people different from all other peoples? Theology and Zionism - Everyone who is anti-Zionist "blames" Zionism on their favorite bugaboos. Communists make believe it was allied to fascist movements, and atheists confuse it with religious claims. True, some Zionist precursors were religious, and there were and are religious Zionists. However, Herzl, Pinsker and Hess were not religious and their ideology was not based on ancient prophecies, but on the realities of Jewish culture and a correct understanding of historical trends. Their desire for Jewish culture made them turn away from assimilation. Correct analysis of European society showed that acceptance of the Jews and assimilation was impossible unless the Jews had a state. Sure American Jews can assimilate eventually, just as Scottish Americans and Greek and Italian Americans can assimilate. But Scottish and Greek and Italian and Irish etc. Americans can earn the respect of others as equals that is needed to assimilate because they have an "old country" that is really theirs by right. Jews did not have that "old country" before Israel existed. Of course, Israel needs to make concessions for peace and of course Israel needs to be defended as a part of the West, but the West must make up its mind that the superstitious curse of Eusebius is over and one with, and that there is no longer a taboo on Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem. If god doesn't come into the equation, then what is the objection to Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem? (we can discuss the borders of Jerusalem as a separate issue).

The question for the USA and Europe may be whether, if they do not stand up to extremist lunacy, there will be a USA as we know it in 60 years? Can Europe survive another 60 years? Probably, but not necessarily as secular democracies. If they don't stand up to the nut cases, perhaps they will be part of a Caliphate.

Ami Isseroff Zionism & Israel

Horus:

Or rather, Zionist propaganda. As usual, the Jews can do no wrong, but are only wronged by others. And only others are "extremists."

This is particularly absurd and dishonest:

Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism - It is impossible to divorce these two, because the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state.

In fact, anti-Semitism is an unreasonable hatred or resentment of Jewish PEOPLE. Anti-Zionism only indicates dislike or disagreement with the principles of Zionism, a race-and-religion-oriented doctrine that pretends that ancient residence in a place gives one a permanent deed to it. It says nothing about Jews being "inferior" as a people, only that states are not reserved to a people and a location forever.

so, you aren't one of those who believe that "historic Palestine" belongs to the "Palestinian people". OK.

Horus:

Let Israel solve its own problems. The U.S. made a grave error when we hitched the wagon of our Middle East diplomacy to the Zionist state. And that error has cost us years of grief.

whereas propping up the shah, 1980s vintage Saddam, the Saudi royal house, et al have nothing to do with the current mideast situation; it's all because the Arabs are so upset about the Palestinians.

Horus:

Time to put all Middle Eastern nations on the same footing, and stop playing favorites. Ask not what we can do for Israel, but what Israel can do for us...for a change.

well, they don't have any oil, so you're out of luck. all they can do is give arab women the right to vote and serve in the parliament. doesn't count for much.

gzuckier:

Horus:

Or rather, Zionist propaganda. As usual, the Jews can do no wrong, but are only wronged by others. And only others are "extremists."

This is particularly absurd and dishonest:

Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism - It is impossible to divorce these two, because the thesis of anti-Zionism is that Jews are inferior to other peoples and do not deserve a state.

In fact, anti-Semitism is an unreasonable hatred or resentment of Jewish PEOPLE. Anti-Zionism only indicates dislike or disagreement with the principles of Zionism, a race-and-religion-oriented doctrine that pretends that ancient residence in a place gives one a permanent deed to it. It says nothing about Jews being "inferior" as a people, only that states are not reserved to a people and a location forever.

so, you aren't one of those who believe that "historic Palestine" belongs to the "Palestinian people". OK.

Huh? Palestinian Arabs were LIVING in Palestine before 1948, or was that fact new to you?

Horus:

Let Israel solve its own problems. The U.S. made a grave error when we hitched the wagon of our Middle East diplomacy to the Zionist state. And that error has cost us years of grief.

whereas propping up the shah, 1980s vintage Saddam, the Saudi royal house, et al have nothing to do with the current mideast situation; it's all because the Arabs are so upset about the Palestinians.

Your strawman, I'm afraid. There are and have been many problems in the Middle East...I'm only saying that linking our interests to Israel's has not been entirely good to us. Arabs are (justly) upset with us for lots of reasons.

Horus:

Time to put all Middle Eastern nations on the same footing, and stop playing favorites. Ask not what we can do for Israel, but what Israel can do for us...for a change.

well, they don't have any oil, so you're out of luck. all they can do is give arab women the right to vote and serve in the parliament. doesn't count for much.

I'm not out of luck, Israel is, I'm afraid. Still, they're big boys, they can play on their own without Uncle Sam overseeing their actions, wouldn't you say?

"However, Jerusalem was the capital of the Jewish State when Washington DC was a swamp and London and Paris were wildernesses inhabited by barbarians".

Maybe. But then almost 1700 years passed (since around 350 C.E.) during which the city and region were controlled by people who were decidedly not Jewish. Ignore this historical fact at your own, and Israel's peril.

Dear Ami

You are totally wrong about the anti zionism/ anti sem itism smear you and so many other no tolerant spew about.

I love Jews and their amazing culture. Along with a MOJORITY of Israelis, I support contact with the terror group, Hamas.

I also very much disapprove of ANY nation established on Religious or strictle regulated cultural or ethnic division- as Israel is amoung the ugliest exponents of such non inclusivenenss and racism.

The demographic powers and the world's distaste for apartheid shall change Israel someday soon.

Please get yourself and your family ready for these changes.

The post 1967 Israel is a huge mistake- one that has directly caused so much suffering in the region and far beyond (9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, NeoNazism et al).

Rebbe Menachem Schneerson knew this- and many many other Jews and Nons- The interesting, still potential state of Israel MUST change.

I do not mean just the Olmert indictments and IDF reform.

We want an Israel we can look up to, not have to apologize for every time we turn around.

Please help.

Join us in peace AND JUSTICE

Pace Schalom, Salaam, Pace