Now that Clinton’s campaign is not only toast, but croutons, they now expect to be invited onto the ticket. “It’s the only way to win in November!” they claim.

Uh huh. Bullshit.

If there was ever a situation in which the ultimate result would be that the whole is less than the sum of its parts, it’s an Obama/Clinton ticket.

Forget the fact that Clinton has revealed herself, during the course of the process, to be a venal, pandering, dishonest and incompetent candidate. I mean, why should an objective evaluation of her empirical performance under fire mean anything compared to the bloviating of the Clinton At All Costs crowd?

But think about the resulting dynamics. First, Clinton has the highest negatives of any candidate in presidential history. And for good reason. She’s an asshole. Sorry, but I started out in this campaign just disapproving of her as a GOPig in Dem clothing. Now that she’s had plenty of opportunity to show her true multiple personality, all I see is a person prone to magical thinking, unable to adapt to changing realities, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge unpleasant objective reality. Sound familiar?

Second, those of her supporters who wouldn’t vote for Obama are not going to support the ticket with Obama at the head. Sorry, but I can see from the posts of her supporters and the campaign strategy she followed, that they are too bigoted and short sighted to grow enough in a few months to actually support an African American candidate. Those Clinton supporters will vote for McCain, not an Obama/Clinton ticket. Fortunately, their numbers are not substantial enough to change the winning path of an Obama/whoever ticket.

Third, even those that would decide to support Obama with Clinton on the ticket (but who wouldn’t support Obama without Clinton on the ticket) are useless. They don’t contribute to campaigns. They don’t volunteer. They don’t canvass. And, if the Fray is any indicator (hell, any of the internet postings by Clinton supporters), they can’t write for shit, either.

In terms of geography, New York will go for Obama no matter what, as will Illinois. Arkansas will stay GOPig, as it would even if Clinton topped the ticket. You might get some marginal advantage in Florida, but again, the voters who supported Clinton in Ohio and PA won’t come out in numbers to support Obama just because Clinton is on the ticket. Most of those folks (i.e. everyone except old women basing their votes on gender identification) are going for McCain.

Instead, Obama’s entire winning strategy is in attracting new voters and disenchanted independents. How will that fare if on the ticket, Obama includes a woman who has become symbolic of the old style, pandering, triangulated faux-GOPig policies of the past?

It’s a counter-intuitive, and cognitive dissonant causing combination. And it will never happen. Hell, that’s before considering the effect of asshole Bill on the campaign.

The proper VP candidate will likely be either Sebelius of Kansas or Jim Webb of Virginia. The Clintons are finished. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I'm still holding out hope for Florida - I think we CAN come out for Obama and show that there are millions of Floridians who believe in hope and change!

There are lots of us working toward that -- and with the Obama campaign reaching out like it is, we have a chance to be different this year.

Well, that may be the REAL pie-in-the-sky part of my campaign hopes this year - but I'm going to believe! :)

I like Sibelius and Webb (and I have always liked Biden - but I know that's a no-go)

I agree that it will never happen, but disagree that it would be of no utility to the Obama campaign.

I think that many who support Hillary will vote for McCain. Not all but some might be persuaded otherwise if Hillary were on the ticket.

If Obama takes your stance on things for sure he is done. Look at the numbers of people who voted for Hillary and I think you might at least understand that her campaign was not without supporters. Had the Democrats staged their nomination process like the republicans I do believe she would have been the winner.

Winning among Democrats is far different than winning in the national election. To win Obama has to win over a large number of those that supported Hillary. That is a fact and you will see Obama and Hillary making out to be real friendly very soon.

For all his talk about being against old politics Obama was not shy about dragging Kennedy's around and who is more symptomatic of old politics than that family. He also dragged Casey around PA who once again is the old school of politics.

If you want to believe that Obama is so dedicated to a new form of politics you certainly are easily deceived. Take a look at his path to today and you will see a path of destruction that makes Hillary look like a girl scout. He is all about win at any cost and let nothing stand in his way.

Also to imply Hillary only had support because of a gender bias is incredible. To be sure people vote for someone for all sorts of reasons some of which have nothing to do with their politics but to say that she has an advantage by being a woman to me is just beyond belief.

I truly believe their are more people who would not vote for a woman than there are people who would not vote for a minority. I also believe that there are more people who would vote for Obama based upon his black side than would vote for Hillary because she is white.

Do you not find it curious how he has embraced his blackness when he is just as much white as black and he was raised by his white mother and grandmother while I am guessing his father was parts unknown.

He grew up in an area where being black is not as much a detriment as it would be in other areas and he enjoyed the best that this country has to offer from the time he was in high school until now.

Obama is not quite qualified to walk on water and the sooner his followers take him off that pedestal and support him for what he intends to do the more serious he will be taken by those who just either do not get his rhetoric or do not believe it.

raptor5618:

I agree that it will never happen, but disagree that it would be of no utility to the Obama campaign.

I think that many who support Hillary will vote for McCain. Not all but some might be persuaded otherwise if Hillary were on the ticket.

If Obama takes your stance on things for sure he is done. Look at the numbers of people who voted for Hillary and I think you might at least understand that her campaign was not without supporters. Had the Democrats staged their nomination process like the republicans I do believe she would have been the winner.

Winning among Democrats is far different than winning in the national election. To win Obama has to win over a large number of those that supported Hillary. That is a fact and you will see Obama and Hillary making out to be real friendly very soon.

For all his talk about being against old politics Obama was not shy about dragging Kennedy's around and who is more symptomatic of old politics than that family. He also dragged Casey around PA who once again is the old school of politics.

If you want to believe that Obama is so dedicated to a new form of politics you certainly are easily deceived. Take a look at his path to today and you will see a path of destruction that makes Hillary look like a girl scout. He is all about win at any cost and let nothing stand in his way.

Also to imply Hillary only had support because of a gender bias is incredible. To be sure people vote for someone for all sorts of reasons some of which have nothing to do with their politics but to say that she has an advantage by being a woman to me is just beyond belief.

I truly believe their are more people who would not vote for a woman than there are people who would not vote for a minority. I also believe that there are more people who would vote for Obama based upon his black side than would vote for Hillary because she is white.

Do you not find it curious how he has embraced his blackness when he is just as much white as black and he was raised by his white mother and grandmother while I am guessing his father was parts unknown.

He grew up in an area where being black is not as much a detriment as it would be in other areas and he enjoyed the best that this country has to offer from the time he was in high school until now.

Obama is not quite qualified to walk on water and the sooner his followers take him off that pedestal and support him for what he intends to do the more serious he will be taken by those who just either do not get his rhetoric or do not believe it.

You know, I've been hearing this same bs about Obama since January. Oh, Obama can't win enough white votes; his "followers are all naive, blind, cultish:" blah blah blah blah blah.

And the only thing that's been shown, empirically, are this:

1. Obama wins elections with his coalition-- blacks, progressives, independents.

2. Obama loses those voters who base their vote on either divisive hot button issues or identity politics (which is part racism, part feminism, and part vague reaction against perceive elitism.

3. Those who support Hillary are useless. They don't organize, they don't contribute money, and they don't canvass. Even when their candidate's back was against the wall, it was Obama volunteers who flooded Indiana to stem the tide.

I know it's comforting to make yourself believe that the supporters of an alternative candidate are blind to the reality that only you and a shrinking minority of others see. But, that's what denial is all about.

The fact is, Obama started with every disadvantage, from his race (which he of course tried to distance himself from since he is not running as Jesse Jackson reduxe), to the vicious GOPig style attacks of his GOPig opponent, Clinton. But he's come out on top. Not magically-- he took hits, he suffered the temporary loss of support, he seemed worn out by the end of April.

But he's not only here, he's flush with cash with no end in sight for more. He's got a voter registration drive that will net a million volunteers and tens of millions of new voters. He's smart, he's adaptable, and more than anything else, he's Chicago (not by birth, but by training).

Smirk all you want. We're used to that from the GOPigs, Come November, we'll see who's right.

you are right we will see in November. But just look at the vote count and consider what you said. 10 million new voters and yet how many more votes did he get than Hillary. And shrinking you say. He is the so called winner and he loses in Indiana where he was way ahead. The next two elections he is going to lose and given that even the most pro hillary supporter has to understand that her chances are only possible give that superdelegates could vote her in yet the likelyhood of them taking that direction are virtually nil will find it difficult to come out and vote yet more of them will than those who support Obama.

He won but I think you need to pull in your smug attitutde and try to understand all the dynamics of what is to come and not sit there all proud that Obama has some captured the imagination of the young idealists, the over educated in their ivory towers and the blacks. All very motivated but he needs more than that to win.

If you want to call Obama's win an overwelming proof of his greatness go ahead but I think that given that at this point he still is unable to win in states that are coming up is proof that he has very little power to unite.

raptor5618:

you are right we will see in November. But just look at the vote count and consider what you said. 10 million new voters and yet how many more votes did he get than Hillary. And shrinking you say. He is the so called winner and he loses in Indiana where he was way ahead. The next two elections he is going to lose and given that even the most pro hillary supporter has to understand that her chances are only possible give that superdelegates could vote her in yet the likelyhood of them taking that direction are virtually nil will find it difficult to come out and vote yet more of them will than those who support Obama.

He won but I think you need to pull in your smug attitutde and try to understand all the dynamics of what is to come and not sit there all proud that Obama has some captured the imagination of the young idealists, the over educated in their ivory towers and the blacks. All very motivated but he needs more than that to win.

If you want to call Obama's win an overwelming proof of his greatness go ahead but I think that given that at this point he still is unable to win in states that are coming up is proof that he has very little power to unite.

Right. I am hyp-motized by Obama's greatness and smug about it. Just like I'm going to take you seriously.....

Chew on these stats:

Take the African-American vote, for example. With each 10 percent increase in black turnout nationwide, Obama gains an average of 13 electoral votes, while his chance of winning jumps by about eight points.

Poblano found that increasing the youth vote by 25 percent would give Obama 16 additional electoral votes and boost his chance of beating McCain by nearly 7 percent (assuming that this group breaks 70-30 towards Obama).

Compared to African-Americans and 18-24 year-olds, the Latino vote doesn’t break as heavily towards Obama. Poblano’s baseline assumes a 60-40 split in Obama’s favor and each 25 percent increase in turnout boosts his chances of beating McCain by a little under 3 percentage points.

I am simply anticipating that the contours of the old electorate will change a lot. This is a transformational election. Voter turnout will be up by millions this year. Those people are not going to vote the first time just to bring in Bush III.

What I think is simply happening here is the shock and awe on typical, worn out white voters who are just beginning to realize that they are no longer the biggest kid on the block and that they just might have to get off their asses and beat the Obama coalition instead of sitting on a century of success.

But they won't get off their asses. They'll be too divided, too dispirited, and too wrapped up in just surviving month to month to stand in the way.

Doodahman has for non Obama voters, Obamacrats? That's how you need to be. Stop playing all these silly games that people are beginning to see through anyway. Embrace your rage, bigotry, and outright racism and hatred the way that Doodahman has.

He is, you see, the REAL Obamacrat among you. He IS what is at your core as a voter and a citizen.

You know you want to. I can read that in your fawning responses to him, and although you carefully step around his outright spews you secretly dip a finger into them and then delicately lick and shudder in delight.

All this silly liberal doxology that you cling to as if it were a religion is rather pitiful, and it is fooling fewer and fewer people. At it's core the Obama campaign is about the rage and hatred and contempt that Doodahman joyfully embraces and unrepentantly shares with his fellow Obamacrats.

Drink it down and rejoice being what you really, really are . . . and actually have been all along.

Gatewood:

Doodahman has for non Obama voters, Obamacrats? That's how you need to be. Stop playing all these silly games that people are beginning to see through anyway. Embrace your rage, bigotry, and outright racism and hatred the way that Doodahman has.

He is, you see, the REAL Obamacrat among you. He IS what is at your core as a voter and a citizen.

You know you want to. I can read that in your fawning responses to him, and although you carefully step around his outright spews you secretly dip a finger into them and then delicately lick and shudder in delight.

All this silly liberal doxology that you cling to as if it were a religion is rather pitiful, and it is fooling fewer and fewer people. At it's core the Obama campaign is about the rage and hatred and contempt that Doodahman joyfully embraces and unrepentantly shares with his fellow Obamacrats.

Drink it down and rejoice being what you really, really are . . . and actually have been all along.

What 'people'? You? Believe me, there has never been a shortage of morons attacking my posts. In fact, if those assholes would just stop changing names all the time, I'd spend less time being fooled into thinking the same old asshole is some new person worthy of initial respect.

I'm not surprised you feel hunted and hated by Obama supporters. Perhaps if you had a real life you wouldn't feel so put upon. I notice that you spent the entire weekend rambling on these pages-- responding to just about everything posted on Sunday, for sure. I wouldn't have bothered to check but I was working the weekend and dropped in.

I suggest you get life. Find a girl, get a hobby, get some sunshine. All you're becoming here is tiresome.

hatred that you feel for your fellow humanity Obamacrats. That's the lesson that you really need to learn from Doodahman. It's not enough to be a died in the wool bigot or racist, you must revel in that aspect of your personality.

You must hate people with an all embracing passion.

You can learn from this guy. Seriously. Hell, he could qualify as one of Obama's blessed mentors.

Gatewood:

hatred that you feel for your fellow humanity Obamacrats. That's the lesson that you really need to learn from Doodahman. It's not enough to be a died in the wool bigot or racist, you must revel in that aspect of your personality.

You must hate people with an all embracing passion.

You can learn from this guy. Seriously. Hell, he could qualify as one of Obama's blessed mentors.

I'm racist? Oh yeah, I'm an Italian American who supports an African American candidate in an election where his opponent's sole claim to the nomination is that "white voters support me."

But I'm the racist. Sure, yeah! Makes perfect sense.

You pathetic fuckstick.