I just noticed the advert for this discussion, sponsored by the John Templeton Foundation, on the Slate home page. Have only had time to glance over a few of the responses, but it seems rather interesting.

LINK

The literalist version of "Genesis" God...yes.

Given definitions of "God" start a couple million and go up from there...to quote Virgil Solozzo....nothing's off the table.

Of course, given no material way to prove the non-material....science has nothing to offer the believer.

But it is simpler to believe in things that are material and can be quantified and measured....than things that never can be....isn't it?

Not all beliefs, but it makes belief in certain manmade God constructions shakey. Literal fundamentalisms don't hold up well in the face of the space program or archaeology, but more metaphorical or allegorical faiths can find support for their beliefs in science, as can works based faiths.

I believe that someday science will develop to the point of recognizing that there is much more to the universe than we can measure and possible more than we are capable of understanding. Not very long ago we didn't know that ultraviolet or infrared light existed. It was not until we developed instruments capable of measuring these invisible wavelengths of light did these terms come into common use. Not many parents remember what it's like to live without electricity but some of our grand parents do. We have discovered so very much in the last century or so but we have only scratched the surface of what the universe holds. By all means continue to seek knowledge of everything. GOD gave us brain so that we could seek and understand HIS creation.

That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable.

That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable.

You are very right & that applies to all beliefs, theories & opinions.

I will have to disagree with you here......and have Biblical backing for it.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

(Now does this not describe “modern” thinking? All these out there claiming to be “good” because they are better than the men in jail, the drug dealers, their neighbor etc….instead of against God’s Law)

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Etc.

"That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable."

Yet, you assert unequivocally that your god exists. So I guess that makes you arrogant and unbelievable.

onio-:

"That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable."

Yet, you assert unequivocally that your god exists. So I guess that makes you arrogant and unbelievable.

LOL...I know one thing so that makes me arrogant......ROFL. Yet you claim to have all knowledge. You claim to know that GOD does not exist anywhere at anytime.

Now that is ARROGANT.

Nano, you know that no scientist would claim that science has all knowledge. We have discussed this many times. Science is the search for explanations, for understanding. Why would we be spending billions of dollars per year on theoretical as well as applied research if we already had all knowledge?

Salaam

Nanotech:

onio-:

"That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable."

Yet, you assert unequivocally that your god exists. So I guess that makes you arrogant and unbelievable.

LOL...I know one thing so that makes me arrogant......ROFL. Yet you claim to have all knowledge. You claim to know that GOD does not exist anywhere at anytime.

Now that is ARROGANT.

Show me where I made either of those claims preacher. I realize that your profession precludes telling the truth, merely claiming that whatever you say is the truth but if you are going to claim I said something you are going to have to prove it otherwise admit that you are lying.

Nanotech:

onio-:

"That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable."

Yet, you assert unequivocally that your god exists. So I guess that makes you arrogant and unbelievable.

LOL...I know one thing so that makes me arrogant......ROFL. Yet you claim to have all knowledge. You claim to know that GOD does not exist anywhere at anytime.

Now that is ARROGANT.

Nice of you to twist things again Nano, back to saying people are claiming things they have never claimed but you have. No one here has claimed to have all knowledge, the claim is that based on all the knowledge we do have that nothing shows the presence or existence of "God" with the properties you claim that this being has. There have been and are, however, many things that show that claims of certain actions, events, etc... attributed to this "God" are incorrect.

You on the other hand claim 100% certitude that you know this God does exists, is the one correct and true God and that it demands our fealty or we shall all be punished according to this collection of short stories and letters from almost 2000 years ago. And that all knowledge that contradicts anything in your interpretation of that book is flawed and wrong.

Uncle_Spike:

Nanotech:

onio-:

"That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable."

Yet, you assert unequivocally that your god exists. So I guess that makes you arrogant and unbelievable.

LOL...I know one thing so that makes me arrogant......ROFL. Yet you claim to have all knowledge. You claim to know that GOD does not exist anywhere at anytime.

Now that is ARROGANT.

Nice of you to twist things again Nano, back to saying people are claiming things they have never claimed but you have. No one here has claimed to have all knowledge, the claim is that based on all the knowledge we do have that nothing shows the presence or existence of "God" with the properties you claim that this being has. There have been and are, however, many things that show that claims of certain actions, events, etc... attributed to this "God" are incorrect.

You on the other hand claim 100% certitude that you know this God does exists, is the one correct and true God and that it demands our fealty or we shall all be punished according to this collection of short stories and letters from almost 2000 years ago. And that all knowledge that contradicts anything in your interpretation of that book is flawed and wrong.

You are the one doing the twisting but in your arrogants you can't see or recognize it.

That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable.

Nano, I wasn't aware that onio was an atheist. I thought he simply had a faith that was non-Christian........

That a small,insignificant creature such as mankind believes itself to be so knowledgeable that it can say what does or does not exist in the universe is the height of arrogances and is down right unbelievable.

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PRECISELY! That's why I find the arrogance and limited worldview of religious fundamentalists to be unbelievable! They claim to KNOW exactly what God wants people to do, and exactly what the paths to reaching God are! They even presume to KNOW who is 'good' and who is 'evil' in eyes of God.

Down-right unbelievable, like you said!

Which part have I twisted Nano, come on....or is it just going to be more of the same groundless bs, spin and bluster from you?