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legislating peace and harmony and cheap oil
by bearcat98

Noah says that OPEC can be sued and broken up because it isn't a government. Obviously, though, OPEC the non-governmental entity doesn't actually have any control at all over the production or price of oil. The governments of countries that are members of OPEC do. So we're back to Noah's claim that their sovereign immunity doesn't apply because our law says so.

Now we can control the policies of other governments just by passing laws! Unhappy with Iran's support of militias in Iraq? Get an injunction in district court! Worried about North Korean nukes? Sue to confiscate them! Neat trick.

Oh, but what if North Korea passes a law forbidding military cooperation between South Korea and the US? Or if China passes a law forbidding arms sales to Taiwan (clearly a commercial activity)? I guess we'll have to pass laws outlawing their laws first!

Why stop at foreign governments? Maybe we could pass a law against global warming? Why outlaw acts degrading the environment when we could outlaw the effects of environmental degradation? The Romans did it!

Heck, why not just pass a law saying that everyone is in perfect harmony with each other and the rest of the universe? Every single problem solved with a single piece of legislation!

Of course, our government can make policy regarding our natural resources, and other governments can make policy regarding their natural resources. That's the nature of sovereignty. Oil production in OPEC countries is a matter of policy. If we want to make their policy without their consent, I guess we could conquer them and extinguish their sovereignty, but that really is more of a foreign policy matter than an antitrust matter.

Serious question: what am I missing? Is there anyone serious that Noah could point us to in support of his position that one country can forbid another sovereign country from controlling the extraction of its own resources?

Re: legislating peace and harmony and cheap oil
by Clark_Kent

Right on, Bearcat ! The only country whose behavior we can control --- at least without military action, and we have seen how well that works --- is the USA. Almost 30 years ago President Carter started a program of energy independence for America. The first thing Ronald 'Reagan did upon taking office was to shut it down, even to the point of removing the solar panels from the roof of the White House. If we had been working on the problem all these years, we wouldn't be worrying about OPEC. Thanks again, Wingjuts !

Re: legislating peace and harmony and cheap oil
by Polmanic

Well said.

On the actual reasons for the rising price of oil these days, it is less to do with OPEC and more to do with speculators, traders, possibly hoarders and of course the rising demands by countries trying to sneak into the industrial age. As far as I know the spigot is quite turned on in OPEC and non-OPEC countries (Mexico, Canada, Russia, Norway etc). Gone are the days when the org. actually used to control the supply to affect prices. All of this then actually makes Hillary's threat even more disingenuous.

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