I have to say, I think Prudie was way off base in her response to LW #1. I totally agree that the LW was really rude by not clearing her plans with her mom before going out and getting plastered, and by not saying goodbye first, but it is a far cry from a bit of rudeness to a drinking problem! I'm a 30-something mom of young kids myself, and while I don't ever impose on my parents like that, it's mostly because they don't give me the impression that they would welcome overnight child care. If I had someone I didn't have to pay who I trusted to watch my kids at night and get up with them in the morning, I would certainly take the opportunity to go out with a girlfriend and maybe have too much to drink. If it was visit over a weekend, I might even do it two nights in a row! How trampy I am!!

The fact is that the LW probably doesn't get out much because of the cost or unavailability of care, and having small kids means that even if she does go out, she always has to remember that she will have to get up with them in the morning, limiting how late she can stay out and how much she can drink. Taking advantage of the opportunity to cast off those restrictions with someone she trusts caring for her children does not make her neglectful or trampy or lacking in self-control or judgment.

I will definitely go with "really inconsiderate." But that's not even in the same ballpark as "needing her kids' grandmother to be a stabilizing force, because clearly she isn't one." Her mom should just tell her she would appreciate some courtesy next time, and if she doesn't want to sit for the kids overnight, she should just say so.

Sorry, I obviously meant the LW's daughter.

I agree with you 100%. I thought Prudie was way off base with her answer.

The daughter was super rude to treat her mom like hired help and not ask her if she would be all right with watching the kids so intensely for the whole weekend - and leaving without saying goodbye was pretty wretched too.

But going out and having a few too many cocktails with a girlfriend? I didnt realize that once one's uterus has been activated, that having a few carefree nights renders someone a tramp and an alcoholic who has a troubled marriage! Puh-leeze. Get a grip Prude-ie

My 40 year old sister drops my 2 year old niece off my with my parents for the night occasionally and we have a great time going out, having some drinks, dancing, doing whatever. My parents get coveted time with the baby - and my sister gets a well deserved break, as does her husband who usually goes out with his buddies. What the hell is wrong with that?

And whats the deal with LW's daughter being a "slut" because she went bar hopping. Are we really still living in an age where a woman going to a bar is so obviously there to hook up that we can assume she must be a slut? I cringed when I read that garbage.

Prudence lives up to her name, indeed.

I agree, dwtintx. While the daughter was very rude, "tramp" is harsh. It is nice to get out once in a while and let your hair down. I guess we must stay at home and knit every night to be good mothers.

Signed,

Tramps like us

I'm glad the grandmother said something. It was "can you watch them?" this one time. But then it turns into 2, 3, 4, etc. times. Nip the problem in the bud!!

I agree with the posters above, especially the first poster.

The Letter Writer is is incredibly judgmental; it seethes from every line of her letter. Her repeated denails of it simply show that she is completely - if not hilariously - unselfconscious too.

Her daughter should not have left without saying goodbye. Other than that, she has nothing to apologise for.

If the Letter Writer does not want to babysit for her daughter under these conditions, she is under no obligation to do so - she can simply refuse. In fact that is where things stand, given the last (broken) communication between the two. I don't think there is anything to add.

Prudie's analysis of the situation is completely inappropriate. Prudie is as judgmental as her correspondent. Shame on her.

Making a days drive to go barhopping with your friend may not be "trampy" but it doesn't sound like the most responsible or considerate behavior either. If you want to go barhopping with your friend, stay in town and get a babysitter (or leave the kids with your husband). I think it's the fact that she took the time to drive to see her mom that puts it in the "bad behavior" category. Why even bother making the drive unless she's really just wanting to take advantage of free childcare? I'm sure the grandmother was happy to spend time with her grandchildren, but if I were her I wouldn't enjoy being taken advantage of either.

Yeah, I think most of us can agree that her conduct towards her mom was pretty shoddy - if LW was supposed to be the babysitter for weekend the daughter should have asked beforehand and made her intentions very clear.

The outcry is over the fact that Prudie has deemed the LW's daughter a tramp, an alcoholic, a bad mother and someone with a troubled marriage simply because she went out with a girlfriend to a few bars (oh the horror!!!!!) and had some drinks. I mean for the love of god!

Would anyone bat an eye if a man went out with his buddies and did the same thing? Or drank a load of beer at poker night? Come on!

While everyone is preparing to light torches and gather pitchforks, you might want to take another look at the whole thing without getting in an uproar over the term "slut" and "tramp."

Those of you that take offense because what she does is "similar" to stuff you like to do...do you think it's responsible behavior for a parent to come home drunk in front of their kids? Do you think it's okay for a parent to threaten to never bring her kids over to visit their grandparents again because they disapprove of this?

The grandmother didn't directly call her child a slut or a tramp (even if she felt the behavior was such), she simply told her that if she planned on staying out drinking most of the night and coming back drunk, she should stay in a hotel. That is perfectly reasonable. If the woman wants to stay at her mother's and have free babysitting for the weekend so she can go "play", I'd think it's reasonable for it to be on her mother's terms.

Prudie's response might be a little harsh to you, but she's usually direct in her responses. But her advice in "your child is acting like a child, and you have a right to not indulge her behavior in your house" is spot on.

Yah hit the nail on the head there jln418. What's good for the gander doesn't apply to the goose to many people.

I wonder if judgemental Meteor1962 feels the same way about a guy going out and getting a drink or two or five for that matter as they obviously do about a gal. Ohhhhh, she decided to have an adult night out! She's obviously an alcoholic tramp and the worlds worst mother! Call CPS, the kids are being neglected!

I liked the comment above about the 'uterus being activated.' *lol* After just having a kid I can relate.

Just because you have kids doesn't mean you can't still take some time out for yourself and some adult activities without the kiddies. People who are so child-centric risk ruining a marriage (although th LW didn't say if daughter was married or not) and raising spoiled self-absorbed adults who think the world revolves around them. (Sorry! Not true!)

And why, because she went out two nights in a row does that label her as a tramp or an alcoholic? The LW doesn't mention that her daughter has a problem with alcohol other than these two nights out. And it doesn't sound like she brought a strange guy back to the house with her....

Yes, the daughter was rude. She does need some lessons in gratitude and manners.

My parents would gladly watch my kid if I wanted to go out partying for a night or two, but then I live 18 hours away from them.

Most bars close at 1 or 2 am depending on the sate. So if she stayed out until bar close, and then drove home (stupid!), they got home in the wee hours of the morning.

What would the kids still be doing up at that time? The LW doesn't say ANYTHING about her being drunk in front of the kids. And the LW doesn't say anything about the daughter threating to not let her ever see the g-kigs again. Talk about jumping to Armageddon conclusions!

LW does have the right to say "You want to do this again fine, I'll watch the kids, but you should stay at a hotel." Your house, your rules. Daughter should show some thanks for the free babysitting so she can go out. And daughter should grow up.

(Although we don't know what LW said to daughter over the phone that made her hang up......after all, everyone would tend to tell their side of the story to make themselves look blameless. Maybe mom DID call daughter a tramp in good ol' passive aggressive fashion... "If I had ever done this sort of thing when I was your age your grandmother would have called me a tramp." or something to that effect.)

Wow it looks like Prudie's response hit way to close to home with some of you all.

Yes, parents should certainly have the right to have adult activities separate from the children. But if your idea of 'adult activities' includes going out and getting plastered on a regular basis, only to stumble in at the wee hours of the morning, I'm going to bet that you are too immature to be a really good parent.

No, the kid isn't going to be up at 4 am to see Mommy stumble in. But Mommy is certainly going to still be drunk off her ass when kiddo wakes up at 7 am. So right there kiddo gets a lesson that being drunk is more important for Mommy than being there for him in the morning.

Then there is the whole 'oh once in a while doesn't hurt!'. Yep, I agree. If Mom wants to get drunk off her ass once a year then it isn't going to do the kid any lasting harm. But the letter sure doesn't sound that way to me. In fact, according to the LW, Mom was doing it 100% of the time that she had the opportunity. Sounds like a problem to me.

Oh and as for the straw man of 'nobody would care if it was the Dad!' - I don't see a single comment that supports that. Personally I think it is just as bad of a problem with Dad as Mom. But nice attempt at trying to distract from Mom's actual behavior.

MadScience,

I didn't hear anything in that about the parent being drunk in front of the child. I also didn't hear anything about the mom threatening that grandma couldn't see the kids anymore.

I also wonder why the mother would not want to spend time with her mom. I mean, that's your mom, she's gotta have done something pretty heinous for you not to want to see her!

I don't think going out two nights in a row equates to "regular basis".

And LW's idea of 'drunk off her ass' might just be a drink south of tipsy. Heck one or two drinks, and being in a good mood having some fun, letting off some steam, and I'm much more emollient than the amount of alcohol consumed would lead one to believe.

Methinks Prudie's unusually harsh characterization of the daughter was written to provide fodder for fraysters. That or Prudie has some Victorian ideas about what a mother should be.

Again, on 100% of the observed cases, she chose to go out drinking and came home drunk. Sure we could decide that those are abnormalities but you are doing that based upon nothing but your own imagination.

Same thing for 'oh drunk probably just meant a single drink' - could be, but you don't have anything to base that upon.

Anybody here that was protesting above want to say that really really, they meant they only drank a single drink when they went out?