*Sigh* I'm excited to read this book, but I also wonder what took so long. Stuff like this has been around my whole life (23-ish years.) Of course, I might just be more aware of it because my grandparents and younger cousin are totally hip to the uber-Christian groove.

Frankly, as a young Christian, this kinda thing annoys the stuffing out of me. I feel as if there is a very fine line between belonging and alienating. In an effort to wipe away every speck of non-Christian dirt, uber-Christians are in fact drawing lines in the sand (usually circles, around themselves) that strongly labels Us vs Them. That was NOT the message of Jesus. Remember, he loves "all the children of the world?" He met with prostitutes, tax collectors, and said that non-Jews could be saved; he was all about erasing the lines. He was all about the non-judgemental.

Maybe it's also just a facet of growing up Lutheran (I was taught my relationship with God is nobody's business but mine), but I don't buy the whole "we're commercializing to reach out to people." Witnessing should be done infrequently, and cautiously, and never for personal motives-it should be done when the Holy Spirit guides you, and the other person is willing. (Think spiritual consent: no means no, they're not ready or they're following their own spiritual path, no matter how true the Word is.) Putting this kind of bull out there ("Jesus is my DJ"? Seriously?) only makes actual, heartfelt witnessing harder.

It also threatens to push away ACTUAL fellow believers; I can't tell you how many times I've been told I'm going to hell by a member of a uber-Christian group on campus, only to see them in church the next Sunday. Talk about embarrassing.

It is difficult because these persons push this cultural Christianity that we in no way want to be identified with. Remembering this verse helps me. James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. That is what its about. Forget the other annoying stuff its irrelevant. Just remember Jesus came not to save the righteous but the sinner. Keep the faith.

I was going to write something to this effect, and I think you put it much better than I could have.

I often feel that the purveyors of "Christian" merchandise forget that Jesus was never intending to be hip or trendy.

I also feel like it plays into the persecution complex that many Christians, especially evangelicals have fallen into. These would be the same people that raise a stink over Target selling "holiday trees" instead of Christmas trees. Let's have our own rock music, tee-shirts, movies, etc. so those horrible secular humanists won't take over everything.

I'm still a Christian, but I found that whole attitude incredibly offensive, considering there are Christians in parts of the world who really are being persecuted (i.e: killed for their beliefs).

I'm still a Christian, but I found that whole attitude incredibly offensive, considering there are Christians in parts of the world who really are being persecuted (i.e: killed for their beliefs).

And, sadly, persecuting.

Does Target really sell holiday trees instead of Christmas trees? That's just stupid.

Anyway, good thread.

This is an interesting topic to me, because I didn't encounter Christian culture (as in Christian music, or people who willing listened to Christian music) until I entered college. Now, I grew up Christian, and my parents even took me to church almost every Sunday, but somehow I never heard about this. At first my new evangelical friends made me feel very left out. They sang with their hands up in the air, and they went to concerts of bands I had never heard of.

I rarely like Christian music.

It may be partly the quality, but certainly there are exceptions to that rule if one looks. I think it is my basic distrust of authority. I feel the same way about patriotic music. If I hear religious messages outside of church, or patriotic songs outside a few rare occasions, my suspicion is that someone is trying to manipulate me. This makes me angry, and cynical. Christian bands who openly consider evangelizing part of their goal don't help that perception.

There's plenty of opportunity for artists for whom 'Christianity is just a part of who they are' to sing about their life experiences (most of which will probably be the same as everyone else's life experience, but maybe with a different nuance). I think I'd be comfortable with that. That's just artistic expression. Just don't try to make me do anything, think anything, or feel anything that I didn't ask for. :-)

"Does Target really sell holiday trees instead of Christmas trees? That's just stupid."

It was kind of a big broo-ha-ha a couple of years ago. Christmas trees were being listed in Target mailers and on the shelves as "holiday trees". Bill O'Reilly and his ilk got very up in arms about it, claiming that there was a "war on Christianity" going on. My sister told me to boycott Target with her because of it (I didn't.)

I think Target went back to listing them as "Christmas Trees" this past year because of all the kerfuffle.

Stupid, yes. But what can you do.

What is really an important issue to me is qauility of the Christian entertainment industry. I am not against there being a Christian music industry, but since the Bible clearly states that Christians should do all things as unto God - in other words, in a way to glorify God - if it is called Christian music, or a Christian movie, it had better be as good if not better than the secular version.It also shouldn't be just a rip off. There are some musicians out there and authors out there that manage to be just that, equal or better than the secular world. Unfortunately the gimmick side of things is just trying to keep up with pop culture and is not at all concerned with quality and so the majority is not particularly great or even good.

I actually listen to both secular and Christian music, watch some Chrisitan movies (very few) along with secular movies, and on a rare occaision hit up Christian fiction right next to the more worldly fiction. I have one requirement though - I expect the product to be good, if the only selling point is that Jesus or God is mentioned in a positive light and the rest is just crap I want little to do with it. It is a turn off to me and other people. I also feel it is a bad idea to use it to 'evangalise' because poor quality sort of gives the message that something that is suppose to be lifechanging really isn't worth the time to develop an end product that is above and beyond the status quo to represent that message and no one wants mediocre lifechange.

Rebecca I think you hit the nail on the head, "if the only selling point is that Jesus or God is mentioned ... and the rest is just crap I want little to do with it". If you are using God to sell a product that is worthless then I don't see how you are any better than the money changers in the Temple. I also wonder what these self appointed abitars of Christendom think of the C.S. Lewis science fiction especially Perelandra (SP?) which if I remeber correctly doesn't mention Jesus.