While everyone is focusing on what Hillary said, I find it equally interesting to look are O'Reilly's lead-in where he says he's not a middle-class guy. Bill-O loves to play up his background as a working-class kid (true or not) from Long Island so as to convince his viewers that he's still one of them.

Now, he just admitted that this line is complete bull-pucky.

Both O'Reilly and Clinton COME from working class backgrounds and eventually BECAME upper class via their work. As is the story with many Americans.

Baloney. Hillary grew up in at least an upper middle class family. My family couldn't afford a vacation home in the Poconos and I actually did grow up in a working class family IN Pennsylvania.

As for Bill-O, his father was an accountant. That's hardly "working class" either.

Bill O and Hillary are from "working class" backgrounds, just like Kid Rock is from a trailer park.

What is actually amazing is that many of Bill's listeners actually find that credible. Of course, they're apparently dumb enough to think the other things he says are credible too, so maybe not so amazing.

(sigh). Their grandparents worked in factories, their parents worked in middle class white collar jobs (HRC's dad had a small textile business, which was successful), and I would guess that they and their siblings were the first generation to go to college. Same as my New Jersey family. Same as many Americans.

And by the way, could you please stop being childishly rude? Thanks.

Please explain to me how being an accountant is not "working class." What is your definition of working class...mine is someone who has a job or owns a business. Part of our problem is that we come up with classifications of our fellow citizens that do much to divide us and nothing to help us.

This BS that the "working class" is somehow "holy" or the good guys and folks that own a business or work inside are "evil" or the bad guys is just that...BS.

Before you holler that the rich or Big Business are "evil," remer this...Poor People don't hire nobody. If you want to help poor folks, then help create jobs...helpful hint for the student here...GOVERNMENTS don't creat jobs or wealth...BUSINESS does.

Regards,

COL M

Mike-ford, while you have a technically accurate definition of "working class", you should really think about what sort of person would be disincluded from such a category. Almost nobody would, except for the unemployed, and even some of them would probably be included.

The term "working class" is, roughly, an economic class that is below middle class but above poverty. Typically, working class occupations require few advanced education requirements, if they require any at all.

Basically, if you're an accountant, you're not working class.

Bate,

OK...Fair enough...but why do we perpetuate this unecessary (IMO) warfare between the "classes?" We (in the corporate sense) seem to be trying to point fingers at the "rich" say ing it's their fault. Problem I have that, is several-fold:

1) "Rich" is a relative term...Some folks would consider me "rich," while I consider myself "middle class."

2) Climate of "envy" fosters redistributionist policies which end up hurting everyone, and put a drain on economic growth. I challenge anyone to show me how "punishing" success through taxation/redistribution enhances growth and encourages further development. (ie taxing oil companies "excess" profits...like that will help bring down fuel costs).

3) "Rich" has become a pejorative term. Fact is, as I've said in other fora, poor people don't create jobs, "rich" people do.

Most of the "rich" money in America is 1st generation, it's not "Old Money." That says to me, anyone can make it. I'm prood of that...My father had a 3rd grade formal education before he joined the Army in time to fight in Korea. By the time he retired as a Sergeant, he had his GED and a 2-year degree from the Community College under the GI Bill. he gave me a better start than he had...and hopefully, I've given my young'uns a better start that I got. It's all about luck....

Luck being defined as when preparation and opportunity meet...or put another way...a little hard work goes a long way.

Regards,

COL M

This wouldn't be an issue if Hillary herself didn't bring it up. If her family is working class and she says so then no problem. If they're no problem either if she never made the claim.

The problem arises when someone like Hillary whose family may not have been wealthy but were certainly not "working class" either makes that claim to show their "working class" roots. She claims Obama is an "elitist" when her family was better off then his.

She is lying about her past to get votes in other words. Although she lied about Bosnia on multiple occasions too so I guess this is hardly a surprise.

sak:

(sigh). Their grandparents worked in factories, their parents worked in middle class white collar jobs (HRC's dad had a small textile business, which was successful), and I would guess that they and their siblings were the first generation to go to college. Same as my New Jersey family. Same as many Americans. And by the way, could you please stop being childishly rude? Thanks.

I see. So disagreeing with you is childishly rude?

mike-ford:

Please explain to me how being an accountant is not "working class." What is your definition of working class...mine is someone who has a job or owns a business. Part of our problem is that we come up with classifications of our fellow citizens that do much to divide us and nothing to help us.

This BS that the "working class" is somehow "holy" or the good guys and folks that own a business or work inside are "evil" or the bad guys is just that...BS.

Before you holler that the rich or Big Business are "evil," remer this...Poor People don't hire nobody. If you want to help poor folks, then help create jobs...helpful hint for the student here...GOVERNMENTS don't creat jobs or wealth...BUSINESS does.

Regards,

COL M

Working class is working in a skilled trade, like construction (which is what my father did) or manufacturing. Accounting is a professionally licensed occupation, similar to a doctor or a lawyer. Owning your own business is not working class.

Oh, and I never said being rich or owning a business was "evil". Piss-poor attempt to villify people with a non sequitor.

Mr. Mike, I'm very much in agreement with you on most all of what you say. I don't think class warfare is helpful, though we've both got to admit that our government, laws, and economy in the US rely on competing factions, and if people don't fight for themselves, they're liable to get snookered. There have been steps taken over the course of our American experiment to reduce the most egregious forms of competition and allow for cooperative endeavors (socialist projects, like mass transit, and a progressive tax for the former; a culture that rewards common cause and public service, not to mention tax benefits for charity giving, for the latter).

I also agree that being "rich" is demonized somewhat. I think it's very slight, though, as people are still trying very hard to be rich.

However, I don't think rich is a relative term. I think there are reasonable metrics and standards for determining class. Otherwise, how would we know that half of China is desperately poor? If you're interested, one definition of middle class I liked was that a person could lose their working income and still live comfortably for at least a year. A related definition for the wealthy would be a person who could stop receiving working income and live comfortably indefinitely. There's obviously a lot of problems with these definitions, but I like their tangible and simple measures, at least for conversation's sake.

I also differ greatly about the pros and cons of redistributivism, but we don't need to hash that out here.

Similarly, I don't believe your personal experience can be easily extrapolated across our society. I'm very glad that the US values and celebrates social mobility, but sometimes the barriers just pile up. I usually think of it in terms of probability. How probable was it for you to surpass the educational level of your father? That probability, across a society, will have some people in your position (i.e. success) and other people who aren't. A person with similar personal characteristics to your own might not have made it to where you are based on factors outside of their own control. I don't want to morally impugn them because they didn't succeed.

But, anyway, as I'm sure you saw another poster say, this class issue is an issue of the Dems' politicking (I'm mostly blaming Clinton). Hopefully, our combined effort will be enough to subdue any overindulgences in class warfare.

i used to be forced to get up two hours before i went to bed to do my 14 hour shift licking the streets clean.

no, but calling me "dumb" is childishly rude.