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The big flaw in Tim's argument
by Vic from Oregon

Tim suggests - indeed, his whole argument actually requires this premise to be true - that remaining unpledged delegates, the misnamed "superdelegates", are waiting to see what everyone else is going to do before they decide what to do. Why are they waiting? Tim and others offer us possible scenarios. Here are a couple. To fulfill the wishes of the people? Well, then that would leave them split evenly down the middle. Too afraid to vote their own conscience? Yet, nothing has led anyone to believe these particular people are lacking a backbone.

Whatever the reasons, such attempts at electoral divination are all very speculative. With an authority that Tim doesn't actually possess, he suggests that regardless of why they wait, the longer they wait the more likely they will all vote in unison for the same reason. The problem with this argument is that we don't have a previous election like this one to see how undecided delegates actually vote. Usually when we try to predict a behavior, especially of a group of people who could easily behave differently from each other, we try to base it upon past actions and events. In this case, we don't have such a basis to rely upon.

The reality is we don't know who will win. But, that's the great thing about true democracies. You don't declare the winner until the ballots are all counted. Unless, of course, you want to disenfranchise voters. Something of a past time these days.

There are many ways to suppress the vote. One of them is to convince voters their vote won't make a difference so they shouldn't bother. It's an old trick. It's a good thing women and minorities didn't listen to these arguments too often or for too long. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this historical election.

Re: The big flaw in Tim's argument
by pwoxby

"But, that's the great thing about true democracies. You don't declare the winner until the ballots are all counted."

Yeah, well in true democracies you don't have superdelegates who can overturn the will of the people. And you don't have elections staggered over five months.

On Tuesday the race for pledged delegates will be over. Unless he is struck by lightening, Barack Obama will be the winner. The DNC set the nomination process up so that the will of the people is expressed through pledged delegates.

The superdelegates are waiting for the will of the people to be made unambiguously clear. So on Wednesday the trickle of superdelegates declaring for Obama will become an open faucet. This is the way the process was set up to work.

Obama 08!

Re: The big flaw in Tim's argument
by amazon57
All I have to say if the superdelegates wait to long they will decrease the chance that a democrat will win.And if the super delegates pick hillary with Obamawinning the popular vote and delegates.The main street news media seems to forget that hillary is losing the black vote,which is the modt loyal voters for the democrats.The democrats will lose the house the senate and the president.I voted for the democrats since I,ve been able to vote.But this time I,m voting for my KIDS GRANDKIDS either were voting for the PAST or the Future.
Re: The big flaw in Tim's argument
by lvlhead

Stop this bogus "will of the people". For starters, the will of the people will be known in November. Voting through an arbitrary, complex primary process is not "will of the people". Besides, they are fairly evenly divided. Obama has as much more of "will of the people" over Hillary as Bush did over Gore. If Michigan and Florida (and stop hiding behind procedures instead of "will of the people" whenever the argument does not suit you) is counted - Obama has a lead of 9 delegates - some "will of the people". No, the superdelegates are not waiting for that - they are in a bind. If they declare Obama the nominee, a very large swath of people will stay on the sidelines in November. They are trying to figure out how best to mollify these people. The "will of the people" is evenly divided - any perceived advantage to either party is marginal and hence bogus. We never had a situation like this and the superdelegates do not know how to deal with that. The best compromise is a joint ticket or a split presidency - but apparantly neither candidate is willing to settle for that.

Re: The big flaw in Tim's argument
by pwoxby

I'd debate your points but it would be better if you actually read Timothy Noah's analysis first. Facts are pertinent to this discussion.

Obama 08!

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