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Here's the thing when goverment shoots down citizens....
by Sgt_ROCK
+16/-2 Reply

...who are proven to have been no threat or commited no crime in the aftermath: As a 19 year member of the U.S. military, my position is simple:

I am alarmed and increasingly against the rising use of not only military weapons and equipment, but the military mindset of "us versus them" that law enforcement seems to have been given carte blanche to use against the citizens of the United States.

I don't care what color their skin is or how backward their religious beliefs are...this shit is not acceptable, be it this latest verdict in NY or the granny that was machine gunned to death in Atlanta a few months ago.

I have personally witnessed suspects in Kunar province being treated better than suspects in the custody of America police. At least we just hog-tied or handcuffed them, we didn't run 50,000 volts through their bodies until they they lay completely motionless on the floor.

The Founding Fathers warned us about the dangers of a standing army, and in many cases, thats just what some local, state and federal "law enforcement" agencies have become.

I'm gonna' have to write ...
by watt4bob

... this one down on the calendar.

The day I agreed 100% with a Sgt_Rock post.

I suppose I shouldn't go and spoil it by bringing up Kent State?

ditto ...
by DaysLight

am totally floored. Maybe he met Jesus this morning?

he gets a little muddled on the standing armies question, but his main point about the way our local law enforcement is abusing the citizenry is right on!

Re: Here's the thing when goverment shoots down citizens....
by Woolley
I agree. I have very good friends who are sheriffs here locally. Great people and I have to believe they would never do something like this themselves. However, their is a militaristic mentality in police departments that is alarming. My buddies talk about blowing perps heads off all the time. Its a strange childish machismo. Maybe you need to have that kind of mentality to be a cop, maybe not.
hear hear !!
by baltimore aureole

i'm with, sgt rock!

i presume your post in response to the NYC men in blue who got off scott free after pumping 50 rounds into an inebriated but unarmed groom to be as he exited his bachelor party (as a former dancer, i have a soft spot for inebriated guys who attend bachelor parties and tip well)

it simply defies imagination that the police can kill someone this way and then be found innocent of any and all charges.

next weeks headline: "police lament lack of civilian cooperation - the "no snitch" policy hurting law enforcement"

geez . .. i wonder how no-snitch gets its traction?

shame on the new york court system.

19 years? OUTSTANDING!
by BFD
Ya think calling it a "War on Drugs" has contributed to the mindset? I hear law enforcement officers use the "it's a war out there" line all the time.
Wow . . .
by thelyamhound

I actually scoured this post for the angle with which I disagreed. I mean, it had to be in there somewhere . . .

But no. Sgt_Rock and I are actually in perfect agreement on an issue.

Dear diary . . .

Well, well, well
by Horus

Your approach here is quite at odds with the person you are in BB, isn't it, Sarge?

I agree with your post. Been a long time since I've written that, no?

:)

Re: Well, well, well
by Sgt_ROCK

Since somebody mentioned Kent State earlier, consider this.

There was mass revulsion and a huge backlash ove Kent State.

There is only isolated outrage over incidents like this.

Whats really disturbing is how "ho-hum" the American public is over this. Even from liberals, who I normally would be thankful to have on my side in this matter, they are too accepting of this crap.

I don't know how many of our friends (mostly female, but not always) have expressed obvious facial or verbal concern to see my son and and I walking back into the house with our rifles, pistols, or shotguns before or after a hunting trip.

These same people won't bat an eyelid when they see a government agent standing around with a submachine gun, stun grenades, and a mask or PGST helmet on. Why is it that putting on an article of clothing with the word "POLICE" on it magically makes you above reproach?

Astute observation
by justoffal

This mindset is being cultivated ( IMO) for the purpose of crowd control. It takes a very small force of well armed and trained professionals to control a very large body of unarmed and clueless civilians who are bound to be pissed off with the removal of even the simplest rights to defend themselves.

We are moving toward a police state.

I see that you have noticed this.

jo

Re: Well, well, well
by mom
Not above reproach. Possibly the fear factor figures in, but I think we are too complacent. I'm not sure of the reasons unless we're just beat down.
I would say to start
by Horus

...that most of the reaction to Kent State was positive, by good, honest Americans who thought those smelly hippy rioters got what was coming to them. Only gradually did opinion swing back the other way.

But I agree there's little enough revulsion over this kind of thing, and it's partly the fault of a weak, trivia-loving Media that doesn't give such incidents the coverage they deserve.

And yes, being 'Police' does tend to make one above reproach. And I'm ALWAYS alarmed to see SWAT teams or cops in full riot gear...or shows like 'DEA' where squads of armed and armored narcs bust down the doors of SUSPECTS, guns drawn, ready to kill. And that's not to mention tasers and such...

Good commentary.

There are consequences
by mom

Although quite small in the larger context, there are those brave enough to take on the powers-that-be, at least in the courtroom:

Settlement is too little, way too late

Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

It tarnished the reputation of the Harris County Sheriff's Office.

It brought down District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal.

And on Monday, a civil rights saga that had dragged on through six years of courtroom delays, politically charged depositions and appeals, ended with another bang.

But this time, it was the Harris County taxpayers doing the whimpering.

In a hastily convened emergency meeting, the Harris County Commissioners Court voted unanimously to pay $1.7 million to settle a lawsuit brought by two brothers who were wrongfully arrested after a 2002 drug raid at their neighbor's southeast Houston home. One brother photographed the raid; the other videotaped sheriff's deputies struggling to confiscate the camera from his brother.

If you think $1.7 million sounds high, the total price tag is even steeper.

A judge still has to determine how much to pay for the brothers' legal fees, which could total $1 million. That's on top of more than $574,000 that County Attorney Mike Stafford says the county paid in legal fees before the civil trial began last month. In addition, attorney fees for Rosenthal's defense on a contempt charge that he deleted subpoenaed e-mails in the case could total $127,000.

That's $3.4 million — still lower than the $5 million Lloyd Kelley, an attorney for the brothers, said the case has already cost the county.

Harris County Judge Ed Emmett called the settlement a "rational" step to end the litigation and help the county move forward.

"Clearly, this is one of those things you can look back on and say 'How did we let this spin so out of control?' " Emmett said. "I keep thinking that Watergate started as a break-in and ended up as this huge coverup. This started as a simple civil rights case. Either the officers did it or they didn't do it. And it ended up being about e-mails and scandals and the DA's office and everything else that had nothing to do with the case."

The lawsuit did provide citizens a kind of backstage pass into the inner workings of the agencies that are supposed to be enforcing the law and seeking justice on our behalf. The millions of dollars that went into the lawsuit bought a lot of sunshine, including subpoenas that uncovered Rosenthal's e-mailed love letters to his secretary, racist jokes and the political campaign he was running out of the criminal courthouse.

Taxpayers will decide if their investment was worth it.

But the fact remains that, from the beginning, the county had the power to prevent the whole, expensive, grueling, legal mess.

Harris County could have avoided legal liability if Sheriff Tommy Thomas' department had simply done its job by investigating the claims of brothers Sean Carlos Ibarra and Erik Adam Ibarra and taking any disciplinary action — so much as a letter of reprimand — against the deputies involved.

"The sheriff could have avoided all this with a letter," Kelley says.

But instead of actually looking into the Ibarras' claims that the deputies stormed into their home without probable cause, drew their guns, arrested them, seized their cameras and confiscated their film, the sheriff's department argued that it couldn't investigate because, technically, the Ibarras' written complaint didn't count.

Why? It wasn't typed onto the right form, or, as one representative of the sheriff's department put it, it wasn't presented on pink paper with a blue ribbon. After all, the sheriff's department can't make it too easy for citizens to file complaints. Then everyone who's had his home invaded, property confiscated and spent a night in jail for no good reason could complain about it.

Stafford, when asked what lessons had been learned during the ordeal, said communications between his office, the DA's office and sheriff's office could have been better. He said the sheriff's department could have done a better job following its procedures on investigating complaints.

Indeed.

When I called the sheriff to get his response, his spokesman, Capt. John Martin, told me Thomas was gone for the day. But he said the sheriff believed the settlement was fair, although he still doesn't acknowledge any wrongdoing on the part of his deputies.

The deputies — Preston Foose, Dan Shattuck, John Palermo and Sgt. Alex Rocha — said they acted because they did not want their faces exposed since they worked undercover.

Emmett said he believes Thomas has learned from the experience, although he wouldn't go as far as his fellow Commissioner Steve Radack and acknowledge the deputies violated policies.

"Tommy Thomas is a smart man, and this whole thing has been a major distraction, if not an embarrassment. And I'm sure he wants it behind him and he wants it never to occur again," Emmett said.

I'm sure the taxpayers agree. But violating citizens' civil rights and then not investigating the resulting complaint properly is more than just a distraction or an embarrassment.

It's an injustice that requires more than a multimillion-dollar payoff. It requires reform. It requires responsibility. And it begs for assurances that it won't happen again.

For that, we the taxpayers are still waiting.

lisa.falkenberg@chron.com

Sometimes there are, yes
by Horus
Nice to see that there were eventual consequences in the case you cite here. It sounds like karma ended up biting D.A. Rosenthal pretty hard on the behind...:)
Re: Funny you should mention that.
by Lono

Just this morning on my way into work, I saw a traffic stop. The officer writing the ticket was dressed like a commando with a Batman utility belt and I thought back to when my grandfather was on the force...the neatly pressed uniform, the mirror-like finish on his patent leather shoes...and wondered exactly the same thing.

I mean, I can see doing away with the patent leather dress shoes, but some of the paramilitary gear is a bit much. If you go out geared up and looking for combat, combat's what you're going to find.

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