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Let's all remember the goal is November
by doodahman
+1 Reply

It's a pointless diversion, I think, to spend any more time worrying about Clinton. An 8.8% victory in a closed primary in a state that is demographically designed to boost her and sink Obama, after six weeks of constant and low-brow attacks against him by both Clinton and McCain (not to mention ABC), is exactly what I said it was-- Clinton's "high water mark"-- her Gettysburg. She made her Pickett's charge, she reached Obama's lines momentarily, and now she has to slink out of PA with no money and nothing left to say other than she's more electable than a candidate who's beating her in every possible electorate category.

Yes, there were two years between Gettysburg and Appomattox, but those were two years in which the outcome was never again in doubt.

In fact, as a life long Cubs fan, I recognize exactly what type of candidate Hillary is-- she's the Sammy Sosa, Dave Kingman of the Democratic Party. That is, she can knock out a homer or drive in runs, but only when they don't count for shit. When playoff positions are on the line and it's make or break, Sosa, Kingman and Hillary can't buy a hit. Only when the pressure is off and doom is assured do they manage to put up the numbers. In short, Hillary is the Cubs in early September-- beating the Reds in a series that can't possibly affect the standings.

Nonetheless, the PA and Ohio contests (forget Texas-- there's nothing worth talking about with that state in terms of November) do point out exactly where Obama is flawed and weak as a candidate and where he must adjust his message and tactics. No doubt about it.

Obama simply has been unable to gain the support of working class whites (i.e. earning less than median family income), white women, small towners, and old farts. The questions are why, and what can be done about it.

First, we have to recognize two factors off the bat. One is racism. Not to make a big deal about it, but not every racist fool is a GOPig and there is just a certain segment of the white vote, both independent and democratic, that can't bring itself to vote for a black candidate. No sense in whining about it or pretending otherwise. Just as Obama is not going to win hard core conservative GOPigs, he isn't going to win racists.

Which means he's got to make sure he pumps up his turnout among blacks to compensate (call it reverse racism or identity politics-- either way, he's got to make the most out of that constituency).

The second is that he's facing an establishment democrat who is the first viable woman candidate for president. That is a problem that ought to evaporate once the nomination is settled. Her core constituency, namely white women over forty, is not going to vote for McCain. The issue will be turnout, and the party will have months to ensure that turnout is sufficient. Although, there is an inescapable reality that the conservative wing of the democratic party really belongs in the GOP and we are just going to have to see them emigrate and hope (and work for) compensation in terms of jacking up the number of moderate/left independents joining the party to replace them.

But in the end, a key change has to be how Obama relates to working class voters-- the ones who are most likely to switch from the GOP due to economic conditions and the war.

In reality, it's easy to see why Obama has trouble connecting with them. First off, he doesn't really know them. He did not go to public schools in America, he did not go to a state college, and when he worked, it was among the poor and the marginalized workers on Chicago's southside. In addition, he isn't, like Clinton, adept at shapeshifting and inventing convenient dopplegangers to assume depending on the audience he's attempting to reach.

So, when approaching the general election, it would be a mistake to try and recast Obama into something that he is not. It's also a mistake to rely on jacking up McCain's negatives. McCain is his own walking negative ad in the first place, and in the second, a negative campaign would undermine Obama's appeal among change demanding independents (though it might boost the turnout among Clinton dems, who seem to respond better to low brow tactics).

I think the best course is the heavy use of working class surrogates. He needs to assemble a cast of highly visible supporters who already have street cred with working class voters. They have to stump for him and attest to his intentions and abilities to not only work for their interests, but to understand them.

In the end, if Obama makes his campaign about the promise that grass roots organizing will at long last become an effective tool for change, it will dovetail nicely with the assertion that he both understands and supports change that benefits working class voters. I don't think he would be having so much support among left/dems with high educations if he didn't have a working platform that was weighted toward working class interests.

For Obama himself, he will need to concretize proposals aimed at working class interests-- he needs to be out front on augmenting union power (i.e. changing and nullifying much of Taft/Hartly and other anti-union federal legislations); he needs to push his reform of the Social Security taxes to make them far less regressive (which is what lifting the cap on taxable income from $75k to $1 million or more is all about); he needs to address jobs and energy costs with one large green economy job generation programs, and he needs to make outsourcing exceedingly painful for US companies. Last, he needs some way to address immigration that does not offend his progressive and Latino base but which assures working class voters that he will protect the borders and preclude a drag down on average wages.

All of which can be done and done quite handily. Not only will Obama be able to do this himself, but he has one other advantage that might bridge that gap he currently has with working class voters-- the energy and talents of his grass roots support.

While Obama and many of his strategists might have trouble relating to working class voters, a lot of us who support him, write for him, contribute to him, etc., do not. If you have an understanding of working class issues and concerns, it's incumbent on you to speak out, write and become a translator/communicator between Obama the egghead and the working class voters that he'll need to take red states away from GOPigs.

So, for Obama people, let's not get distracted by Clinton-- i.e., pay no attention to the zombie behind the curtain. Let's focus on the real prize-- November.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by tonydavisnelson

Per your reasoning, PA should be "demographically designed" to boost McCain in November. Same with Ohio. If that's the case, what would be Obama's route to victory?

The winner in November will have to take FL, OH and PA. Right now, I don't see any way Obama beats McCain in those states.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by doodahman
tonydavisnelson:

Per your reasoning, PA should be "demographically designed" to boost McCain in November. Same with Ohio. If that's the case, what would be Obama's route to victory?

The winner in November will have to take FL, OH and PA. Right now, I don't see any way Obama beats McCain in those states.

It's quite simple. Looking at the vote totals, about 2.5 million votes were cast in the dem primary compared to less than 800,000 voting in the GOPig primary. Obama might lose 12% of that total due to Clinton supporters that will stay home or switch; but he'll gain far more indepedents than he loses core dems. Obama has always done much better when the vote was not closed and independents and GOPigs could vote. As Gov. Rendell has said (and he seems pretty sharp), either dem candidate will win PA and the same is probably true of Ohio as well.

Additionally, if Obama takes Missouri, Wisconsin, Kansas and Virginia (and possibly North and South Carolina), your math becomes irrelevant.

A dem is going to win in November. That's not in question, regardless of the noise machine and Clinton's desperate argument.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by MomboMan

"It's quite simple. Looking at the vote totals, about 2.5 million votes were cast in the dem primary compared to less than 800,000 voting in the GOPig primary."

Hardly a vailid comparison considering republicans' votes didn't were a moot point, as McCain has the nomination; and the democratic primary is still contested. True, PA has more dems than the repubs, but the state went for Reagan twice and could swing that way again. Obama shoved his foot in his mouth all the way up to the thigh on the "bitter" thing and it will come back to haunt him.

"Obama might lose 12% of that total due to Clinton supporters that will stay home or switch; but he'll gain far more indepedents than he loses core dems. Obama has always done much better when the vote was not closed and independents and GOPigs could vote."

You forget that McCain does extremely well with independents and cross over votes, as well if not better than Obama.

"As Gov. Rendell has said (and he seems pretty sharp), either dem candidate will win PA and the same is probably true of Ohio as well."

Geez; a democratic governor and lifelong democratic politician, as well as a super delegate and strident Clinton supporter says that dems will take his home state and that of the one next door. You take that as believable political analysis because he is "pretty sharp" in your opinion?

"Additionally, if Obama takes Missouri, Wisconsin, Kansas and Virginia (and possibly North and South Carolina), your math becomes irrelevant."

Well, if he takes Texas, Georgia, Utah, Arizona and Alabama it may also be true. Wisconsin is the only "safe" state on your list. Most would see Missouri as a state that could go either way, but Kanasas and the Carolinas trend republican.

"A dem is going to win in November. That's not in question, regardless of the noise machine and Clinton's desperate argument."

That statement is about as arrogant as Obama's expalnation about relegion, guns and bitterness. I can see why he's your boy.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by doodahman
MomboMan:

"It's quite simple. Looking at the vote totals, about 2.5 million votes were cast in the dem primary compared to less than 800,000 voting in the GOPig primary."

Hardly a vailid comparison considering republicans' votes didn't were a moot point, as McCain has the nomination; and the democratic primary is still contested. True, PA has more dems than the repubs, but the state went for Reagan twice and could swing that way again. Obama shoved his foot in his mouth all the way up to the thigh on the "bitter" thing and it will come back to haunt him.

"Obama might lose 12% of that total due to Clinton supporters that will stay home or switch; but he'll gain far more indepedents than he loses core dems. Obama has always done much better when the vote was not closed and independents and GOPigs could vote."

You forget that McCain does extremely well with independents and cross over votes, as well if not better than Obama.

"As Gov. Rendell has said (and he seems pretty sharp), either dem candidate will win PA and the same is probably true of Ohio as well."

Geez; a democratic governor and lifelong democratic politician, as well as a super delegate and strident Clinton supporter says that dems will take his home state and that of the one next door. You take that as believable political analysis because he is "pretty sharp" in your opinion?

"Additionally, if Obama takes Missouri, Wisconsin, Kansas and Virginia (and possibly North and South Carolina), your math becomes irrelevant."

Well, if he takes Texas, Georgia, Utah, Arizona and Alabama it may also be true. Wisconsin is the only "safe" state on your list. Most would see Missouri as a state that could go either way, but Kanasas and the Carolinas trend republican.

"A dem is going to win in November. That's not in question, regardless of the noise machine and Clinton's desperate argument."

That statement is about as arrogant as Obama's expalnation about relegion, guns and bitterness. I can see why he's your boy.

Dream on, GOPig, Dream on.

McCain is the Bob "I'm Bob" Dole of 2008-- thrown out to the wolves to get eaten alive in November. He'll be more of a national joke than a national contender come October.

Yes, GOPig turnout might have been depressed due to the lack of a contest, but that doesn't change the balance of new registrations which are overwhelmingly Democrat.

And incidentally, I would avoid using the term "boy" in reference to Obama. It sorta takes off your mask and renders your posts impossible to take seriously.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by artandsoul

dood - you make some terrific points!

I may actually be coming out of my gagging funk! :)

Obama '08

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by tonydavisnelson

Your posts are indicative of what's wrong with Obama's campaign. He preaches reconciliation, but he's really just a demogogue. His supporters expose his campaign thus when they refer to repubs as "GOPigs" and try to insinuate race into every argument (ref: "boy" comment)

And the notion that you'd revel in McCain being a national joke is pretty sad.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by MomboMan

Hey Dumbocunt,

Your goldenboy will be exposed as the lightweight bitch that he is in the general election. He's just a another arrogant punk liberal who thinks hes smarter than he really is. Go orator (then again, so was Hitler) but but a total lack of substnace. You guys seem to have and endless supply of them, you just trot out a mnew model every four years.

Red will go red and blue will go blue, but McCain has great cross over appeal and will do well in the battleground states.

As to the boy thing, I really am surprised a gutrless poser such as yourself took to the end off the message to scream racism. Those who have no reason or logic have to rely on emotionalism I guess.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by Davelias12
tonydavisnelson:

Your posts are indicative of what's wrong with Obama's campaign. He preaches reconciliation, but he's really just a demogogue. His supporters expose his campaign thus when they refer to repubs as "GOPigs" and try to insinuate race into every argument (ref: "boy" comment)

And the notion that you'd revel in McCain being a national joke is pretty sad.

Clinton supprters and GOPers keeping claiming the moral highground on this "namecalling" issue. WTF?

In what way is Obama a demagogue? Because he's a good speaker? The emphasis of a demagogue is on duplicity and prejudice, that sounds more like Clinton to me.

Re: Let's all remember the goal is November
by doodahman
MomboMan:

Hey Dumbocunt,

Your goldenboy will be exposed as the lightweight bitch that he is in the general election. He's just a another arrogant punk liberal who thinks hes smarter than he really is. Go orator (then again, so was Hitler) but but a total lack of substnace. You guys seem to have and endless supply of them, you just trot out a mnew model every four years.

Red will go red and blue will go blue, but McCain has great cross over appeal and will do well in the battleground states.

As to the boy thing, I really am surprised a gutrless poser such as yourself took to the end off the message to scream racism. Those who have no reason or logic have to rely on emotionalism I guess.

Let's be clear. I'm not saying you're a racist. I'm saying your either a racist or a dumbshit. Take your pick.

Incidentally, "dumbocunt" is a new one-- bravo!

Bottom line, if you are accusing Obama of basing his appeal on emotionalism, you really don't understand anything. But, thanks for your input, Pinnochiotwat.

Mombo, you sweet-talker you
by RonB52

You do know how to come across as the reasonable voice in a discussion.

Way to go.

/sarcasm

I'm doing my part, sir...
by topazz
in efforts to influence the white/catholic/women over 40 demographic, that is. Don't know nothin' about changin' the minds of them racists in Western Pa, though. They pretty much live under rocks out there.
Hey now
by RonB52

I live in Western PA and I have a very nice cave.

I don't think racism is enough to explain the voting out here yesterday. Surely there is some of that. But you have to understand that the Democratic Party machine is very strong here. Maybe I should underline that, too. Very strong. When the Governor, the County Chief Executive and the Mayor all endorse Clinton, it is going to be all but impossible to overcome that here.

Re: Mombo, you sweet-talker you
by TheRaven
Let's all remember the goal is November

You got that right!

Only, whether or not it's Barack or Hillary on the ticket, McCain can't help but win. Bitterness from the Obama/Clinton civil war guarantees low turnout for Democrats, with even some Democrats defecting to the very moderate and likeable McCain (as was actually shown in polls in PA yesterday.)

No Republicans have been lured to support Clinton or Obama, in fact the idea of such a thing happening borders on the ludicrous. The "values voter" Republicans are in venomous opposition to every liberal plank in the platforms of Hillary and Barack. Republicans have been somewhat downtrodden after the undeniable and monumental failures and embarrassments of the Bush administration, but W is already almost out of their minds, put out to pasture, his disgrace already fading into the past. The extreme PC-leftistism of the leading candidates in this Democratic primary have awakened them from their malaise. Obama and Clinton are both incredibly offensive to Republican voters, they will show up in large numbers to fight against either one.

Personally, I'm a "centrist" voter. I have no loyalty to the Democratic or Republican party. Same pig, different dress. I vote based only on issues, and ignore party lines. I would have voted for Richardson or Edwards should they have been on the ticket. But, there's no way I can support a far-left radical like Obama or Hillary.

Re: Mombo, you sweet-talker you
by TheRaven
leftistism

Apologies for that one, blaming it on coffee.

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